Troop Vist Assessment Report

[Its Me]

We have visited a total of three troops.

 

Troop 00X ~12 Boy,

Troop 2XX ~ 40 boys + Venture

Troop 3XX ~50 boys + Venture

 

Troop 00X had the fewest boys. Our vist consisted of an afternoon in a church parking lot building a tower with the Boy Scouts. The adults ran the construction and directed the boys to perform specific tasks. The Boy Scouts yelled at our Webelos and told them that once they joined the troop they could tell them to shut-up.

 

I asked one of the parents if they did camping, and they do about two campouts a year. Did any of the adults have wood badge traing? No that would be way too coincil-ly for them.

 

OK Scratch (Troop 00X)

 

 

Troop 2XX, had about 20 boys at the skills day we did with them along with two other Packs. The day we spent with them was on a Scout campground and the Boy Scouts taught the Webelos knot tying, and hatchet safety. Good stuff.

 

After the Scout Master addressed the audience of Webelos and parents he turned the event over to his son the senior patrol leader. Latter in the day the scout master sat down to have a scout master conference with the boys. He collected the boys and they sat on the pine needles on the ground and had a small chat.

 

The Scout Master said they dont work on Merit Badges too much on the campouts. Their summer camp will be out of state in the mountains of North Georgia. The scout master had a tan shirt on and blue jeans. No other adult leaders were in uniform. When asked to get dressed in uniforms the Troop 2XX Boys put on a tan shirts.

 

It appeared that the adults did the cooking for this event. The adults cooked the dinner and the breakfast. At night the Boy Scouts played a serious game of man hunt. An interview with the scoutmaster said they have had 6 Eagles of the last 4 years.

 

My boy said, dad, they are just like us. I agreed. To me it seemed like the extension of a Webelos den. The main purpose of which was monthly manhunt games at campouts. They seem to take really nice trips but achieving rank and making Eagle is really left up to the individual.

 

Troop 3XX, we met them at their weekly troop meeting in a church hall. At the meeting a living fossil in a tan shirt and green pants told the boys to take out pencils and paper as he was going to go over the aviation merit badge. He then lectured for about 40 minutes using charts and pictures.

 

Many of the adult leaders in this troop have their wood badge beads. A brother Bear from my wood badge patrol is the committee chair.

 

This troop turned out 7 eagles last year and hopes to get 9 this year. To get eagle we were told, we have to come to the troop meetings and outings. All the boys at the meeting wore green pants and tan shirts.

 

The scout Master held a short chat in a church class room. Their summer camp this year is at a council campground.

 

None of the Boy Scouts, including the SPL or any PL spoke to our boys. The boys did not appear to be meeting in patrols. There were no patrol flags or other indications of patrol grouping.

 

 

Assessment

If left to my boy he would pick the manhunt troop of 2XX. No pressure to achieve rank, yet all the fun parts of scouting. On the other hand Troop 3XX is an Eagle mill. Their primary goal is rank ascension and Eagle output. Troop 3XX camps and from time to time will travel out of state but their trips are more measured and there must be a purpose to the outing.

 

I will paint two possible scenarios. One my boys joins the manhunt group has the time of his life for two three years and drops out as his life gets busier. His commitment to academics, school activities and sports does not suffer as much as there is no expectation that he will make Eagle. The other one is where he commits to Troop 3XX and diligently works toward his Eagle. The added pressure of the Eagle will force his commitments to other activities to be scaled back. He has a better prospect of making Eagle by 16-17 years old.

 

 

What say you?

 

(This message has been edited by Its Me)

[Venividi]

Depends on what you want for your son. A nice medal, or personal growth.

[eghiglie]

Our results were:

 

Troop 1

New Webelos are seperated into seperate patrols BUT at each patrol meeting for 20 minutes all boys less than 1st Class are pulled into a First Year group to work on getting first class. The troop has 50 boys in 4 patrols. Merit badge work is not encouraged until 1st Class because the FYE thing is done, but its not discouraged, when the boy goes to summer camp they can work on them so long as the FYE things are done. At 1st Class they push merit badges and help them get to Star, Life and Eagle. They don't push Eagle but they help them if the boy is motivated. They do have about 6 eagles a year. Troop dues are $75 a year, of that $12 is for BL and $10 for BSA fees. We went to normal Troop meeting and it was well organized. They try and keep summer camp to about $300 to $350. The provide tents for boys and adults. When an adult goes comping with this Troop they just pay a meal fee. Quite a few Woodbadgers and I liked that as I'm a Bobwhite.

 

Troop 2

New Webelos are put into a patrols together with a PL and such that are Star/Life. The troop has 120 boys. The push advancement and have about 2 eagles a month. But they don't let you get Eagle till you are about 16. They have 2 sailboats and 10 canoes. Troop dues are $124 a year, of that $12 is for BL and $10 for BSA fees. We went to a Webelos Open House and all the cool stuff was shown. 40 boys were there and 25 signed up on the spot. This means that the troop has 145 boys now. Summer camp costs can vary and this year its $450. Boys also have to supply there own tent. Adults have to pay the same camping cost for all camping trips. I saw no WB beads but its possible they don't wear them. One thing bothered me that was at the meal they provided all the adults cooked and served.

 

There are 15 troops in my area, I emailed and called 5 of the Troops that were closest to us. Only these 2 returned my call and email. Both were well organized.

 

My son picked Troop 1 and I concurred with him. He liked the troop meeting and it was well organized even though they were not expecting us. My contact at the troop got sick that night but they still put on a great meeting. He didn't like Troop 2 because he felt he would get lost in the very big crowd and not get the right attention. I didn't care for the cost of Troop 2.

 

My son has some learning disabilities and Cub Scouts has helped overcome some of those issues. The success story I tell about him is how when he started archery in 2004 he couldn't hit the big target at 10 feet. With a bit of work he wound up being the top scoring Cub archer at CS Day Camp in 2005. Scoring was done at 30 feet. He was also Top Webelos BB Gun in 2006. In the meantime he was mainstreamed into regular math classes as he learned to focus. He also passed the mandatory state reading test with an above average score, which in early 2004 he was way below average.

 

The perfect troop doesn't exist and never will.

 

[SemperParatus]

"What say you?"

 

Well, my first reaction is to visit some more troops.

 

I would be very hesitant to 'project' your son's scouting future based on the existing make-up and program focus of the troop(s) you are visiting. Troop cultures do change, leadership turnover produces change in focus, and your son will no doubt experience unprecedented change in attitudes and interests over the next several years of adolescence. What he gets out of the boy scout program will be as much about what he wants to accomplish, as what the group offers in terms of immediate opportunities. You need to trust your son as to where he thinks he will be the happiest. In the end, that is all that matters and will ensure his continuation in the scouting program.

 

 

[AntelopeDud]

I would have to agree with Semper. Every Troop is different and picking the right Troop that fits you and your sone is a very important decision. I commend you for taking the time and visiting Troops. So often, you have these Packs and Troops out of the same CO and it doesn't really occur to someone to know that there are other Troops out there.

 

Keep on searching, and get involved. Adult leadership is essential in seeing that a boy-led Troop succeeds. Adults come and go just as Scouts do, so the personality of a Troop will change. If there is something you don't like in the Troop that you choose, find out why and promote improvement.

[Lisabob]

If these are in fact the only three options, I'd go with your son's choice of troop 2. First, it sounds more like scouting to me than either of the other options - boys out camping on a regular basis. Second, it sounds like the boys actually get to have an input into the troop's activities, unlike Troop 3, which sounds extremely, extremely adult driven (MB classes and 40 minute lectures at a troop meeting!) and may be the personal fiefdom of the "living fossil" of a SM. Third, because as an adult, you may be able to have the most positive impact on troop 2. Troop 1, forget it - who'd want to be part of that group? Troop 3, probably very resistent to change. Troop 2, maybe open to different perspectives.

 

As for your son's interest level, my read was totally the opposite, although of course i don't know your son. But my thought was, at least he'd be interested in being part of Troop 2 for a while. Troop 3 sounds b-o-r-i-n-g. If he managed to overcome that fact, yes maybe he'd "survive" and "get" Eagle (my words, not yours I know). On the other hand, he might quit very early on. I'm fairly certain my son would have, in that setting.

 

And finally about advancement. 6 eagles in 4 years is fine. Not doing MB work and not stressing advancement at troop meetings is also a common approach. The question I would have about the latter is, is rank advancement unimportant, or is it something that just occurs "naturally," meaning that the skills are taught, practiced, and then recognized in the process of holding events and campouts, rather than "OK today we're learning lashings for 1st Cl rank." If the program is designed so boys get the opportunities to practice the skills then this more laid back approach seems like it might be fine. And frankly I dislike the idea of troops pushing MBs - tends to result in kids feeling like they're at "scout school." Let individual boys pick and choose which individual MBs they want to learn about. If your son is interested in certain MBs, he can work on these regardless of the troop's involvement. If he isn't, that's ok too.

 

As others have said though, the "perfect" troop does not exist except perhaps in our heads.

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

There is more to a Troop than blue jeans vs Wood Badgers & how many Eagles they can turn out.

 

I would visit Troop 2XX again in a Troop meeting setting. I would also visit other area Troops. Personally, I am not impressed with Troop 3XXX's Eagle mill. A 40 min lecture every week sounds like it would bore most of the young men I know to death!

 

According to the way the BSA program is put together, boys are SUPPOSED to advance at THEIR OWN rate. Advancement is only 1 of 8 Methods used in the BSA program(as is Uniform).

 

The final decision rests with you & your son. It depends on what the 2 of you want him to get out of the Boy Scout program.

 

[frank10]

2XX looks like a good troop that could be great with your help!

[local1400]

eghiglie, I'm just curious, do you measure a unit by the amount of WB trained leaders? If you have a strong PLC who are all JLT trained, or whatever they call it these days, Larry, Curly, and Moe can be SM and ASM's. Don't need no beads to lead!

[eghiglie]

 

When we made the visits it wasn't that we went looking for the beads but at Troop 1 the beads and patches for NYLT and Univ of Scouting were in evidence. At Troop 2 they were not apparent on any of the leaders or the boys who stood up and spoke to us.

 

 

[Eamonn]

When I read the title of this thread, I thought it was to do with Commissioner Service.

As we were blessed with one son and he is now 18 my "Assessment" days are over.

I agree with the wise words SemperParatus has posted.

When the time came for OJ to move into a Troop, some of the things we looked at were:

Were there going to be any of his pals in the Troop? This was number one in our book!

What night did they meet on?

We have one Troop that meets on Sunday night -Her Who Must Be Obeyed wasn't going for that -Not in a month of Sundays!!

Did the SM get on well with the Scouts?

We found a really good Troop, in fact a wonderful Troop.

The SM had served as a R/T Commish. A super nice fellow. His family owned and operated a local company that did electrical work. I had used them to do most of the electrical work in our restaurants.

Jerry (The SM) really liked working with the Scouts, the Scouts liked him and he ran a Troop that was close to being "By the book". He had served as an ASM to the Fellow who became our District Chairman, when I was District Commissioner.

Sadly less than a year after OJ joined. The SM and his family had some sort of a falling out, so Jerry went and got a "Real Job" working shifts. So he gave up being SM and not long after seemed to just fade away!!

The guy who replaced him was an elderly guy, who I'm told at one time ran a good Troop some where else in the District, but the Troop was long gone!! He turned the Troop into a merit badge factory and Eagle mill. He didn't like to camp (even when it was warm!!)

OJ, put up with it for just over a year and then transfered too another troop, along with a few of his friends.

Wood Badges, Eagles and even methods were not something that we even considered!! Jerry is a Wood Badge holder -His replacement wasn't.

Still OJ is inviting both to his ECOH.

Troops can change, but most Scouts have friends that they want to stay with especially when they are joining a new group and they have gone from being the "Big Men" in the pack to become the new kids in the Troop.

Ea.

 

[eghiglie]

eamonn makes a great point that my son (and I) took for granted.

 

The 5 troops I contacted were the troops that people from our pack went to in past years.

 

The 2 troops we visited all knew me and my son.

 

In the Troop he picked, the Patrol he was placed in half the boys knew him from camping or the pack. He fit right in at the first Troop meeting.

[Lisabob]

Yes, that's something you should ask about. We all know things change and there's only so much one can ask of a volunteer leader who gives as much of their time as an SM does. But we had sort of a similar experience. The troop my son joined, we chose in part on the strength of the SM and the way he worked with the boys. I don't know if it mattered that much to my son? But it did to me - here was a person who (as a leader) I felt really understood and could implement the program, and (as a parent) I trusted his judgment. Not two months after joining we found out that he was stepping down and being replaced by another person. What we didn't know prior to cross over is that this troop has a tradition (in recent years) of SMs only holding the position for 2 years at a time, and his 2 years were done. Now the SM who followed has his own strengths but he does things very differently from the original SM and the nature of the troop turned out to be rather different from what we were expecting as a result. Would've been nice to know up front. I would have asked about this, had I realized.

[Its Me]

 

I must say that where his scouting friends go has been a concern of mine. There are 13 Webelos crossing over from 3 different dens. Although there are different dens we have done several Webelos specific activities including two Webelos only campouts. As a group they are pretty tight. Not all are brother tight but true friendships are there. Personalities have been sorted out so that they all pretty much mix and mingle. Comfortable would be the best word to use on how all the Webelos interact.

 

The bulk of those crossing over will go to 3XX. The bulk of our Webelos who crossed over last year went to 3XX. So that is a plus for the eagle mill. He only knew one boy from chess in the manhunt troop but this boy was likely two grades up from my boy.

 

I sent my assessment report to my den families. All welcomed the report and most had the same opinion. The acception was my free spirited, very environmentally friendly family, they loved the Eagle Mill.

 

I am looking to make contact with two other troops in the area to arrange visits.