No BALOO adult - What do you do?

[Jeffrey H]

A Hypothetical Event

 

Your Pack committee and leaders have spent a solid month planning the next Pack Campout. Reservations have been made for a record turn-out, the agenda is planned, food is bought, etc., You have a contingency agenda in case it rains. Guide to Safe Scouting has been reviewed and your BALOO trained adult will be attending. As far as anyone is concerned, only a severe weather event will cancel this campout.

 

Scenario #1 - On the morning of departure, your Packs only BALOO trained adult becomes ill and cannot attend. Many folks are already in route to the campsite or have already arrived. What do you do?

 

Scenario #2 During the campout, your Packs only BALOO trained adult must leave the camp due to an emergency. What do you do?

 

[featherbear]

Jeffrey, may I add yet another to your query?

 

What do Cub Units do when their Council hasn't offered BALOO training in a few years? Such was the case for us. I ended up taking leaders to another Council for the training; fortunately for us that Council's boundaries were within somewhat reasonable driving proximity and we were able to do so, but I think we were one of the very few units willing to do that. Our Council has since rectified that training shortcoming, but still! What do Cub Units do? Should they all grind to a halt on overnightes because they don't have access to the training through their Council?

[eagle-pete]

In either scenario, it is too late. Contingency plans should have been in place before the day of the camp. Have the adults turn around and bring the boys home.

 

Get another adult to BALOO training before you plan your next camp.

 

If that is not possible, cancel any future camps until you have at least one more BALOO trained adult.

 

That having been said, I have a question.

Why do you require a BALOO trained adult in order to go on a campout? Is this a new BSA requirement? Last I checked the only requirements were a filed Tour Permit and at least one Youth Protection Trained adult.

 

Please let me know if BSA requirements have changed.

 

CORRECTION

I stand corrected -

"At least one adult giving leadership to a pack overnighter must complete Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO), No. 34162, and be present on campouts. BALOO trains participants to properly understand the importance of program intent, Youth Protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally, according to council policies. Packs use the Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426."

Reference: Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO), No. 34162

 

I was confused with requirements for Cub Scout outings. Overnighters are another matter.

 

My original recommendation still stands as far as planning for camps.

 

Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

[eghiglie]

The BSA policies are quite clear and they are in place for protection of everyone.

 

If there is no BALOO trained person at the event for the duration of the event it can't occur or it has to end. The liability issues would then fall on the members of the unit if something occured.

 

A unit should always have 2 or 3 BALOO folks.

 

If training is not being offered at the Council level than folks in the unit need to go to Council, get the sylabbus and get approval to train it. Teaching stuff at the Council level isn't hard and it doesn't require that much extra work.

 

[Cubmaster Randy]

This is why reccommend having several adults BALOO trained. In our pack of 60 boys we currently have 6 trained adults. i certainly do not want to be the one who tells everyone that the trip is cancelled because we do not meet the BSA requirement. In our district, we do it once or twice a year. Our neighboring districts do it as well. Our council even has two scheduled. I've even sent one of my leaders to NWGA council because that was the only date they could make it

If you don't have one the district/council training chair needs to put it on the calendar and have one.

[Jeffrey H]

So far, I'm the only one who is BALOO trained in my Pack. We used to have none.

 

I agree with everyone. The G2SS says you must have a BALOO adult at the campsite.

 

I was once advised with this comment: If the campout is already underway and you cannot cancel the campout from a practical standpoint (you cant force people to leave), you can declare the campout as NO LONGER an officially sanctioned BSA outing. You have to make sure everyone understands this and if choose to continue camping, they are personally liable for their Scouts injuries.

 

[Lisabob]

Short answer: you don't go (or you turn it into a day-only event), or you come home early in the second scenario.

 

Longer answer: if the problem is having enough trained people to cover these sorts of contingencies, you might try a) letting parents know that you won't be holding the event if a shortage of appropriately-trained leaders occurs (along with an invitation to them to attend an upcoming BALOO session!) or b) banding together with other packs in your area to "share" Baloo trained people as resources or c) contacting your district and council training folks and asking if they can help you locate some BALOO-trained individuals who might be willing to help a pack in a true pinch.

 

If the problem is that your district/council doesn't offer BALOO training, polite harrassment (in the positive sense) is in order. Start bugging your district and council training teams. If that doesn't work, start bugging your DE. Let them know all about the fabulous programs your pack would LOVE to offer, if only they'd get off their duff and provide the necessary training to enable you. And then be willing to help them offer that training, or at least to help them round up enough people to take the training, to make it worth while.

 

Longer answer still: I've had this conversation with our DE a few times over the years. I've received all kinds of interpretations of the BALOO rules, including that "lock ins" don't count, that it covers only pack, but not webelos den, camping, and that as long as the BALOO individual approves the paperwork they may not have to attend the event. On this latter I think the interpretation is flat-out wrong. On the other two I'd tend toward saying the BALOO trained person ought to be there too, although the wording does not specifically reference webelos dens or lock ins - I'm not fond of twisting the wording to fit your convenience (in the lock in scenario I had someone assert that if you sleep in a cabin then that's a lock in, not camping...). But exactly what the local interpretation of the policy will be? Well that's up to your local staffers in no small part. But if it were my name on the dotted line in terms of potential responsibility, I'd be as unimaginative and uncreative as possible in my interpretation and just go with what seems to be a fairly clearly defined policy.

[FScouter]

Hmmm... Interpretation of a rule is done by the interpreter, risk assumed by same.

Somehow I doubt the prosecuting attorney and the judge and jury are going to be fooled by the defense that says "THIS IS NOT A REAL SCOUTING EVENT (wink, wink) ... THEREFORE WE'RE EXEMPT FROM RULES."

[ScoutNut]

I think that Lisabob has the best answer - turn it into a day only event, with no overnight.

 

BTW - The BALOO trained person is not just a figurehead whose body is only required to simply show up. He/she should be the one in charge of the overnighter.

 

 

[eagle-pete]

FScouter

 

I'm no expert on BSA legalities, nor am I a lawyer, although I play one on Scouter forums.

 

I am not sure what you mean by your post. As I see it, once BSA policy is not adhered to, those leaders no longer fall under the protection of BSA insurance, by default. In fact, their claim that the activity is declaired "NO LONGER an officially sanctioned BSA outing" may at that point be moot. I do not see that they would have any legal case against BSA the moment they failed to adhere to BSA policy.

 

Eagle Pete

[scoutldr]

Your council does not offer BALOO training? I would complain mightily to your District TRaining chairman. If this is a BSA requirement, the District has an obligation to provide it. Perhaps you can get a special offering just for your unit, then get everyone trained at once.

[FScouter]

I am not sure what you mean by your post.

 

I was responding to the comment repeated by Jeffery that we can relieve ourselves and BSA of liability by simply declaring the event to not be a BSA outing and that everybody attending is personally liable for injuries that may occur.

 

When 2 kids are playing William Tell and one kid gets a hatchet buried in his skull instead of the apple, the fact that you declared Im not responsible isnt going to fool anybody. If its your outing and you cant control dumb things because you missed required BALOO training, youre going to be liable, and BSA will NOT defend you.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I can't add anything, so I will echo...

 

Tell everyone that training is required.

 

Get trained; get others trained as well.

 

No training within District; go out of District for Training. (Check the Internet)

 

File a Tour Permit, nothing else counts if you don't.

 

No Baloo training, no outing, go home.

 

Be willing to talk to the storm; blame Scouting, it's their game. fb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

While councils SHOULD offer BALOO (if they want their Cubs camping!), there might be circumstances that you know nothing of that are affecting that. There are 2 major reasons why my council cancels training. 1) No participants, or not enough to make it feasible cost wise. 2) Not enough staff. You can't get trained if there is no one to do the training.

 

BTW - a council's training does not have to be within its boundaries. We do our BALOO training at one of our council camps which is outside our council boundaries (about .75-1.5 hrs from most of our council areas). Since BALOO is better done in a real camping situation, many councils do the same. We quite often get folks from other councils attending our BALOO training.

 

Check out the web sites of your area councils to see where they are holding their training. It just might be closer than you think!

 

[John-in-KC]

I will echo what Eagle-Pete, Lisa, and Fuzzy Bear said!

 

As for the lack of training available? This is an issue your COR should be asking for an on the record response from your DE or SE.

 

Part of the Charter Agreement is that Local Council WILL PROVIDE TRAINING SUPPORT. This is cut and dried.

 

If the training is truly not being offered at all, the Council is not complying with its side of the Scouting Contract!

 

Remember the other part, too: It's not just the training, it's the proper use of the training going forward!