Camping Webelos / Bears need advise

[robbyynn]

Ok... this is the conclusion I have come to .... Please let me how you would advise your pack in this situation.....

 

Webelos boy wants to camp - he is wanting to leave scouts because he has been unable to attend campouts.

His mother is sick most of the time and can not come with him on campouts

His father works two jobs to support the family of 4. He can not attend campouts with his son.

No other relative can come with him and there is no family friend who is willing to step in a guardian.

 

now.... We have a campout scheduled at a BSA camp ground in a cabin (Webelos and Bears)

 

This is how I view it: Since Bears are attending this campout it is considered family camping and the child must have a parent or guardian to supervise him at all times. This is the conclusion I came to after consulting "guide to safe scouting".

 

If it were Webelos only is says Two den leaders and parent or guarding.... all scouts must be supervised by a parent or parent approved adult (other than the den leader)......

 

So, a den leader could not be this child's parent approved adult even if this were only a Webelos camp out?

 

Thanks for your years of experience and your advise.

 

Robyn

[ScoutNut]

Bears - Webelos campout???

 

This is not a BSA allowed activity. Bears are NOT allowed to do den camping, only Webelos dens can do that.

 

From the current "Guide to Safe Scouting" -

 

"Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America."

 

It is the WHOLE Pack or just the Webelos. Although I suppose if you called it a Pack family campout, even though it is NOT, you could get your Tour Permit past your council. What are you doing about a BALOO trained adult?

 

As for your Webelos, there is no reason why he has/can not attend a camping trip. Also from the current "Guide to Safe Scouting" -

 

"A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult."

 

and

 

"In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult."

 

There is no stipulation that it can not be a leader. However, leaders (especially the leaders in charge of the campout) will usually be way to busy running the campout & dealing with their OWN son(s) to be in charge of another's child.

 

If the parents of your Webelos would get together with the parents of another Webelos who is attending and have them agree to be responsible for their son the boy could go on camping trips.

 

However - Also from the "Guide to Safe Scouting" -

 

"Male and female leaders must have separate sleeping facilities."

 

"Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility."

 

"Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youth. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be youth-protection trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area."

 

"When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his or her parent or guardian."

[Jeffrey H]

The shorter version:

 

A Webelos Scout can go camping without a parent/guardian as long as he is under the supervision of at least 2 registered scout leaders that are youth protection trained. Of course, you will need a permission slip from the parents before he attends the campout.

 

Bears can go on a Pack Campout as long as they are under the supervision of their parent/guardian (no exceptions).

 

Since Bears are attending this campout, designate your campout as a "Pack Campout", fill out a Tour Permit, and have a BALOO trained adult go with you. Better yet, get yourself BALOO trained and you eliminate that administrative problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FScouter]

"Since Bears are attending this campout, designate your campout as a 'Pack Campout' ".

 

That's a novel approach. Can a Wolf den go camping if they call it a "pack campout", and forget to invite the rest of the pack?

[Jeffrey H]

That's a novel approach. Can a Wolf den go camping if they call it a "pack campout", and forget to invite the rest of the pack?

No.  Tiger/Wolf/Bear Den camping as a "Den" is not allowed.  Bears can go camping as long as Daddy or Mommy is there.  We do this all the time in our Pack. 

My point to the original post is to follow G2SS based on Bears and Webelos.  Keep things above the radar, fill out a Tour Permit, and get a BALOO person to come along.

[ScoutNut]

"A Webelos Scout can go camping without a parent/guardian as long as he is under the supervision of at least 2 registered scout leaders that are youth protection trained."

 

 

Actually - No

 

The "2 registered scout leaders" are there for the 2-deep rule and have NOTHING to do with the supervision of 1 Webelos scout. If the Webelos parents can not attend the Webelos MUST be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. That does NOT mean that all of the parents, of all of the boys, can designate the 2 leaders as their "parent approved" adults. This is Cub Scouts NOT Boy Scouts and Webelos MUST have a parent with them if at all possible.

 

 

"Bears can go camping as long as Daddy or Mommy is there. We do this all the time in our Pack."

 

 

You can call your DEN camping trips whatever you like, that does not make them PACK camping. For it to be a PACK overnighter, the ENTIRE Pack must be involved.

 

Having your Bear den attend with a parent does NOT make it a PACK trip and calling it one to fool your council into approving a Tour Permit is not right.

 

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

ScoutNut:

 

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of G2SS for Webelos. Leaders can be parent-approved. An attending parent/guardian is not required, only recommended. Personally, I would go with the recommendation. I would take as many parents as possible on a Webelos campout.

 

I'm not fooling anyone. As I said before, "Keep it above the radar" which means don't fool anyone. File a Tour Permit, take a BALOO leader, and follow G2SS for each Scout in his age category. When you have a variety of age groups attending the campout, it's a "Pack Campout" and The Tour Permit should reflect that.

 

It's really not that hard. Our Pack has addressed this issue time and again with our UC, DE, and Council. Each time they have told us that "Family Camping" is fine as long as each Tiger/Wolf/Bear are superivised by their parent or guardian.

 

 

[robbyynn]

thank you so much for the advise.... We have indicated that the boy could not attend without his parent or guardian.... It would not be fair to the rest of the boys and one parent threatened to leave the pack if we allowed this boy to attend with anyone other than his parent or guardian.

 

Thanks again!

 

Robyn

[LongHaul]

Our Council runs a Webelos Summer Camp program and it is attended by Webelos Dens comprised of Webelos Scouts and at least two Adults. I've taken two seperate dens over the years and none of the participating Packs had 1 to 1 representation. In fact our failities would not support a 1 to 1 ratio. Inclusion of a Bear Den is another matter altogether.

LongHaul