Lion rank?

[Tami the Mom]

I know there was discussion of a new Lion rank coming in for kindergarteners. Does anybody know where it stands now?

[Sprocket]

There was a lot of discussion here and elsewhere several months back, but it really died down. Supposedly, it was going to be piloted in a few councils. Maybe somebody on the forum from one of those councils can let us know how it's going...

[nldscout]

Our council in NY is one of the test bed councils. Last I heard they had close to 800 in program. I haven't heard how its going, but I will ask and let you know

[Gonzo1]

Kindergarten cubs?

 

C'mon, first grade is too young.

Just my opinion.

 

[Tami the Mom]

Hey - nldscout - what council are you in? I'm in Twin Rivers, and we haven't heard any news on anything yet. We have lots of families interested in a Lion program. I think a lot of them have daughters who joined Daisies in kindergarten, and now they want their sons to jump into Cubs. I know I have boy/girl twins, and it was a big reason why my daughter waited until 1st grade to join Brownies.

[nldscout]

I am in Hiawatha Seaway based in Syracuse NY. We are one of 3 or 4 councils that are the test bed this year.

 

The program is based on the LFL Seekers program book. They are actually charterd as a LFL unit. One council is doing this as a Coed operation, we are only taking Boys.

 

If you want more info I PM me or I can post it here.

 

Paul

[moxieman]

Well this is a surprise to me as there use to be a Lion Rank in American Cub Scouting. It's now first year Webelos. Anyone on this board earn their Lion Rank? If you don't want to admit you've been around that long, I'll understand. It was long gone before I was a Cubbie (which was in the time period where Webelos was for ten year olds, period, and Arrow of Light was as rare as Eagle Scout).

 

[SR540Beaver]

moxie,

 

I became a Webelos in 1967 when it became the "official" rank following Bear. 66/67 was when Lion was discontinued. I do have a Lion book at home that was bought in anticipation of being a Lion. While I have my qualms about a kindergarten program in general, I wish they would have come up with a new critter instead of recycling an old one. How about panther, cougar or leopard?

[Eamonn]

Bulldog?

Unicorn?

Ea.

[OldGreyEagle]

I was/am a Lion of the older 60's variety, why does the BSA do a lot of the things they do, Venture Patrols, Venturing Crews, The knots that Venturing uses look an awful like the old Explorer knots, wait a minute, they ARE the old explorer knots. I guess to be kind one could say they recycle names to pay homage to the past

[SSScout]

Bobcat, wolf, bear, lion, webelos. Long time ago, been there done that. The progression almost made sense. Size and impression. Even made sense from the Jungle Book viewpoint. But like I mentioned in the earlier thread, how can you justify the Lion as the first step and the Bear as the last?

Now, we have Tiger Cub, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Web. You're putting Lion in front of Tiger Cub ? Even a 1st grader is going to see a problem with that, I'd guess.

I'm not familiar with the Learning for Life program, but I've detected a certain, er, stress among the posters here about it.

Is there, perhaps, a section in National Council that must justify its existance by creating new programs whether the old programs are in need of revision or not?

[eagle-pete]

Well, for one thing, Cub Scouts are based on The Jungle Book story, which has no lion. So I am not sure how you would work that into the legend.

 

The Jungle Book characters are:

 

Mowgli - Main character, the young jungle boy.

Hathi - An Indian Elephant

Bagheera - A Black Leopard

Baloo- A Sloth Bear

Kaa - Indian Python

Shere Khan - A Bengal Tiger

Akela - A Grey Wolf

 

Eagle Pete

[eghiglie]

Although I didn't earn Lion, my Webelos card from 1970 has a lion figure on it.

 

I think 1st graders are challenge in themselves, to then add Kindergarten to the crowd would bring on more issues. There would have to be a scaling down of pack and council events and the like.

 

Motor skills are not really developed at that age so how would the pinewood car be boy built?

 

The critter choice is not that clear either, you start as the "king of the jungle" and end as a bear. Perhaps they could called it the Foxes or someother small critter.

 

I understand that the GSUSA has a program for kindergarten girls. I'm sure that its not that easy.

 

Both my boys started as Wolves (one in 2003 and the other in 2004) and the program has been great for them.

[Gonzo1]

Everyone seems to be glossing over what nldscot said, "One council is doing this as a Coed operation". Now begins the introduction of girls into the youth program if this is in fact correct.

 

Someone will say that some survey will show it's OK or that 'everyone likes the idea' and then girls will be allowed to continue.

 

It's feeling chilly here, Hell is freezing over.

[ScoutNut]

I think that the co-ed trial is a bit strange. Actually, I think the whole thing is a bit strange. It is, mainly, being done under the Learning For Life umbrella. LFL, being school based, has always had kindergarten youth, both boys & girls. I am not sure how this will tell National if there is a market for Kindergarten Cubs when there are already Seekers out there in the LFL program. Perhaps just because they are taking it out of the hands of the school?

 

I don't know how much interaction there is with Packs & even if the K's are affiliated with specific Packs. It certainly will make Pack/district/council activities more difficult. What 5th grader is going to want to do activities with a kindergartener? How do you run relay races? Do you change the whole Pack concept around to have 3 Mini-Packs (K-1, 2-3, 4-5)?

 

Yes, the GSUSA has a K-Daisy program, but GSUSA is set up completely different than BSA. Each age group (Daisy, Brownie, Junior, Senior) has it's own Troop, which is basically an independent entity. There is no Pack. They do not have to plan activities that must keep the interest of everyone between the ages 5 - 11.

 

The co-ed trial is going to be REALLY interesting. If the Lion groups are attached to specific Packs, are attending Pack meetings & events, & are included in district/council events & camps, what happens to those girls at the end of the year? Currently they can NOT become Tigers. Do you tell them, so sorry, you are no longer welcome here? Do you send them back to regular LFL? I suppose, with girls already registered as Seekers, that it gives those districts incentive to start LFL groups in their schools. I don't know about the families involved, but I would have a real problem with signing my daughter up for a one year only program that had no future.

 

I just don't see this as an effort to improve the Cub program. I see it as an effort to increase the head count.

 

Oh well. All we can do is wait and see what happens.