Is it time to pull the plug on our pack, or can we recruit more Cubs?

[DenZero]

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first posting here. I am a parent in a Cub Scout pack that has experienced a significant drop in membership, and may not be able to survive the year. I am looking for opinions on whether it is worth saving it, and if so, how to bring in more boys and parents.

 

So here's my story. Pardon the length, but I want to describe the whole situation to see what advice you may have.

 

We live in a city neighborhood with well-defined boundaries. There are two Cub Scout packs, each of which have a Boy Scout troop having a common unit number and chartered org. Both have been established since the 1940s. There are 2 public schools and one parochial school in the neighborhood. What I'll call the Large pack has traditionally been associated with what I'll call the South school. What I'll call the Small pack has traditionally been associated with what I'll call the North school. The Large pack, by virtue of its superior organization and recruiting, draws cubs from both public schools and the parochial school. The Small pack recruits only at the North school, which my boys attend.

 

My older boy joined the Small pack as a Tiger three years ago. It was recovering from a drop in membership, and had a new Cubmaster. At that time, we had only Tigers and Wolves. After that, the pack had decent growth, from 10 to 16 to 21 cubs. The last 2 years, we had dens for each age group, and good den leaders. The Cubmaster who led the recovery stepped down after 2 years to become Webelos den leader. The Wolf den leader volunteered to be the new Cubmaster. He is well meaning, and tries hard, but works long hours and fell behind on planning and communicating. He didn't push the parents that weren't den leaders (myself included) to volunteer for other duties in running the pack, trying to do too much himself.

 

We ended up losing quite a few cubs over the summer. About 40% of the Small pack joined the Large pack, and about 30% of the pack dropped out of Scouting. We tried a "roundup" in September, but no prospective Cubs showed up on recruiting night. We are down to 1 Tiger (my younger son), 1 Wolf, 1 or 2 Bears, 2 first year Webelos and 1 second year Webelo.

 

We have been holding monthly combination Pack/Den meetings with good attendance of the remaining Cubs. The parents take turns leading some kind of craft project or learning game. The Cubs (and their parents) are pretty much on their own for working on badge requirements.

 

My younger son really wanted to be with his friends in the Tiger den at the Large pack, and I thought my older son the Webelo would benefit from den meetings as well, so we're now going to the Large pack too, though it will take a while to catch up with the Webelos there on the badge requirements. So now we're in two packs at the same time, though the Small pack doesn't take much time, as they don't do much. I'm going to try to call some Small pack Webelos den meetings to work on the stuff the other pack already did. The second year Webelo may have already done Citizen and Fitness.

 

At this point, I'm continuing to take my boys to the Small pack mainly as a courtesy to the other boys to keep the numbers up. The Cubmaster's son isn't sure he wants to continue, so if they leave, I don't think there is anyone among the current parents who will be willing to take over as Cubmaster, I really don't want to do it.

 

The gist of it is that unless we are able to recruit new Cubs and leadership by summer, the pack is pretty much dead. It's a shame to see it die after such a long run, but the kids don't care about tradition, they care about program. The Boy Scout troop that we are supposed to be the feeder for will probably be the most disappointed, though they haven't got any recruits from us in several years. The troop has offered to take us along on campouts, which could give us something interesting to put on the calendar.

 

I volunteered to try some recruiting, but am finding it difficult. These kids have already said no a couple of times, or have already joined the Large pack. It's tough to compete when the Large pack can show a calendar filled with events for the whole year, and all we can say is we have a pack meeting each month and might try to figure out some other events as we go along. The District has offered to help with a conventional recruiting drive again, just like the ones that failed before. To confuse things further, the District is also working with some parents at the parochial school who are trying to start a new pack there (there was one there that folded several years ago). They've recently added a new person at the district office, so we might get some more support from them.

 

The Large pack doesn't hold roundups at the North school, and we don't hold roundups at the South school, but the Large pack is very effective with peer-to-peer recruiting and general advertising. Peer-to-peer recruiting doesn't work for a small pack with one unenthusiastic boy per grade level.

 

We really should give one last-ditch effort at recruiting before we decide that the neighborhood isn't big enough for two packs (or three).

 

I'm really looking for some unconventional recruiting ideas to try before the end of the school year.

 

There is of course the act of desperation: get a story in the neighborhood weekly newspaper "Cub Scout Pack to Fold After 55 years", and see if anyone in the community volunteers to save it. We ought to warn the District and the Chartered Org. before we do this.

 

We can try to cobble together a program for the rest of the year with unusual events that we can invite visitors to. The Cubmaster suggested we try this with the Pinewood Derby, with the visitors racing our boys' cars from last year, though I'm skeptical that that would work well. Do you have any ideas for good easy events that we could try? It would work best if we could have an event every month for the rest of the school year.

 

Has anyone tried to come up with a "theme" or "gimmick" for a pack to distinguish it from more conventional packs?

 

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

 

Paul

 

[scoutldr]

First of all, welcome to our campfire. I hope you find it beneficial.

 

I zeroed in on one statement that stood out..."It's tough to compete when the Large pack can show a calendar filled with events for the whole year, and all we can say is we have a pack meeting each month and might try to figure out some other events as we go along." I would say it's impossible to compete under those conditions. Annual planning is an imperative. Your leaders should be getting "Program Helps" in their Scouting magazine, or you can get the whole years' worth at your scout shop. Each month has meetings planned aligned to a common theme. You can use that plan, or roll your own. I would not try to "cobble together" something to get you through the school year. Cubbing is a year round program, so start now and plan a 12 month program, including day camp and resident camp. Too many packs "take the summer off" and that's where you lose them. Sure, there will be vacations and other things, but offer the program to those who want it, even if just a few.

 

Successful scouting comes down to 3 things...program, program, and last but not least, program. If you build it, they will come. Word of mouth (or "peer to peer") recruiting is the most effective. But when they show up at your door, you have to have a product to deliver. The cubmaster, as you say, has good intentions, but it sounds like the pack expects him to do it all. THe CM's job is to emcee the pack meetings and oversee and mentor the den leaders. The pack program and other functions belong to the Committee Chair and Pack Committee. What is the level of training in your Pack? One of our former posters here would say that the answer to everything is training...I don't agree with that, but it's a good start to let everyone know what their respective jobs are. Are your den leaders and CM regularly attending roundtables? In my 6 years as a DL/CM, that's where I got my best ideas...from my peers and the more experienced RT staff.

 

In a 2-Pack town, it should not be viewed as a competition, but to offer boys and parents a choice. There are many reasons that people will not choose your Pack, including location, size, and where their friends go. You can't control those, but you need to focus on the things you CAN control.

 

Good luck.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[packsaddle]

Been there, done that. I agree with Scoutldr's advice. The program is very important. If (BIG if) all other factors are equal, you will grow your pack with a good program. If you have an unequal factor (perhaps the DE cares more about starting the new pack than growing yours), then you have a problem.

In our case, the competing Troop (which was much more robust than the troop associated with this pack) announced a policy not to allow boys into it if they had not been in their associated pack. This, and the DE's decision to start another competing unit at the same time, nearly sunk this pack. All of the boys associated with our CO decided to go to other packs. We nearly folded. Then, after I had a very tense meeting with the church hierarchy, in which I demonstrated that this unit had a program identical to the other pack, and that their lack of support was THE biggest problem (the DE hurt us too, though), they decided to start to support their own unit again. We're back to strength now.

But, as Scoutldr implied, it wouldn't have worked if we hadn't had a good program in place.

[DenZero]

Youv'e got it exactly, our program is lacking because out leadership is spread too thin. We have 2 official leaders, the Cubmaster and the nominal Bear den leader. I think both have had at least the minimum training. I've tentatively volunteered to be Webelos den leader (and minister of propaganda), but haven't registered yet. We don't have a committee per se, though I suppose that would mean all the parents. There are 4 or 5 parents total available to help out, including the leaders. Our biggest problem is we need more "leaders" to help plan things. We need to recruit adults more than kids. We used to think, if we recruit kids, the adults will follow, but it really is the other way around.

 

Paul

 

[ScoutNut]

What is your Charter Organization & where are they in all of this?

 

The Pack belongs to the CO & their support is as important (or more) than that of your DE. It is your CO who who can "pull the plug" on the Pack.

 

It sounds like your Pack has never put together a year-round program or been trained. If they want to stay in business they need to do both. It is also important for them to get their CO back into the picture.

 

There are various things that can be done for recruiting. Would your Troop be willing to help out?

 

With the assistance of the Boy Scouts in your Troop you could put on a Cub Scout Fun Day at a nearby park. Have stations for different activities.

 

If you have access to a movie screen (your CO, the school, the library), or even a projector with a place to hang a sheet, you can have a movie night and show Down n' Derby or Follow Me Boys.

 

A Game Night.

 

An Ice Cream Social with each boy making his own ice cream in a baggie or can.

 

As others have said, once you sign up the boys there HAS to be a good program to keep them. If your Pack can not put together a decent ongoing program, then they will be facing this same problem again next Sept as families bail when they realize the Pack is all talk & no substance.

 

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[ScoutNut]

Speaking of training, here is an example -

 

"The troop has offered to take us along on campouts, which could give us something interesting to put on the calendar."

 

Hopefully that means JUST the 3 Webelos & their parents.

 

Cub Scouts do not camp the same as Boy Scouts. There are different rules & regulations that must be followed. In order to take the entire Pack camping, even with the BS Troop, there MUST be an adult in charge, & attending, who is BALOO trained.

 

 

 

 

[packsaddle]

Thanks, that reminded me...

When I was cubmaster, our associated troop understood the importance of the cubs to the troop. When we had our family campout in the spring, around the time of crossing over or so, we would invite the troop to schedule a campout nearby. Our family campout was at a private summer camp in the mountains with canoes, swimming, trails to the top of the mountain, etc. The troop would do a service project for the church camp. This worked really well. We were camping separately but the cubs got to see all the cool stuff the troop was doing. And the troop organized our campfire ceremony and even invited the webelos to participate in some appropriate activities. In the morning, I promised the cubs that if they got up early, they could wake up the boy scouts. They loved it. So did I. I still miss those little guys.

[DenZero]

Thanks for all the speedy advice and the event ideas.

 

It's tough to get parents to do training unless they really want to. Unfortunately it takes commitment. I might consider it, but my wife thinks I'm wasting my time trying to keep the old pack afloat.

 

The camping invitation from the troop was for the Webelos. It would be nice if we could take the whole pack, as 2 of the 3 Webelos have younger brothers in the pack. I don't think anyone in the pack would be willing to do Baloo training. Maybe one of the Troop's parents has done it.

 

We need to talk with the Troop more to see if they can help us with other kinds of events as well. Having a viable Cub Scout program is of direct long-term benefit to the troop.

 

The Chartered Org. (a church) did send their representative to one of the pack meetings last year. I'll try to find his business card and see if he is still involved. They've been pretty much hands-off, though they generously let the pack and the troop use the hall and a storage room, which is very gracious of them, as it's been years since there's been a Cub in the pack whose family was a member of the Chartered Org.

 

I guess what I really needed to ask is how to recruit adults who are willing to be leaders. And by this I don't mean arm-twisting the one parent who hasn't offered to take a position. We need to find someone from the community outside the pack, and who will be willing to stick it out. 3 of the 4 den leaders dropped out last summer. Of course, we need to be careful when bringing in leaders who don't have kids in the pack. It doesn't work to think that if we get the kids to come, the leaders will follow.

 

What do you think of trying to organize an alumni reunion and invite former pack members to an open house? Some might have children (or grandchildren) of the right age, or they could help with program organization.

 

Paul

 

[WVCubDad]

Hi Paul,

 

I think the alumni night is a great idea. Since your CO is a church, are there former Scouts (not necessarily alums, but that would be great) who might be interested in getting back into Scouting and helping their pack?

 

I currently am a member at a church with a dormant pack and I'm a Tiger Den Leader in a very strong Pack just two blocks away chartered with a church in the same denomination. Long story short, the churches were on different sides during the Civil War and we've also got 4 other UMC churches in the downtown area. I would love to see my church's Pack come alive again, but I don't want to compete with my current Pack and I am not sure that my church would support us the way the other one does. We recently sold our Scout Hall and would have to share a lot of space with other church users, find a good night to hold meetings, etc. It's not impossible, but there's a lot more there than I am willing to do as a first year Scouter. I would like to get some experience in my current Pack and then when my son ages up to Scouts, perhaps get my church's pack going again.

 

Good luck with your situation. I hope it works out and you can keep your Pack alive.

 

John

[Fuzzy Bear]

Circle the wagons before recruiting. Take the group that you have and everyone commit to go to training both for the training and to acquire a good dose of SCOUT SPIRIT.

If they demure, get with the District Training Chair and bring the training to them when they all can get together.

 

NOBODY wants to crawl aboard a ship that is about to go down, so dont recruit until there is some kind of SPIRIT that is encouraging. People will be more prone to come aboard if it looks exciting.

 

Next, require that each family commit one parent for one position OR one activity Or to do one thing that is needed for the Pack, EACH year.

 

Get training VHS tapes and go to peoples homes to get the training started. Get patches and certificates to recognize people as they advance in training.

 

Take, invite everyone to go to Round Table each month to keep the Spirit up.

 

Decide to have a Pack Committee that will SUPPORT the Packs program and to recognize everyone that helps out each year at the Blue and Gold Banquet.

 

The CM is a NON-VOTING member of the Pack Committee, so if he is weak, there will be SUPPORT for the overall program and for him.

 

Use a Resource Survey for every adult connected to the Pack to find out who has places to go, vehicles to get there and things that they can give the Pack (for free). Use the resources in as many activities as possible.

 

The Pack Committee needs to legislate that the Pack will have a written plan for each year. Use the Program Helps so people will not need to make things up. Just read and do. Get everyones email and address and make sure everyone has a copy of the yearly plan. Keep plenty of copies to give to anyone that walks through the door.

 

Once you have something exciting going, go recruit.

 

Places where people might be found: your CO, past leaders of the Pack or the other Packs past leaders, relatives of all families connected to the Pack, check with the feeder Troop to ask if they know of anyone interested, friends of the families

 

When recruiting from the targeted groups, sometimes you really only need to recruit ONE GOOD leader. Things will fall in place if you give it a SUSTAINED effort.

 

Home visits work well. Take your yearly calendar along.

 

That should do it for a start. fb

 

[caveman21]

Hello Paul,

 

It sounds like you have quite the situation in your pack. Here's some advice that I hope will help. Your pack needs to have something attractive to offer Cubs if you want to get them to join. Something I have found effective is organizing "Scout Saturdays" once per month and using the morning to allow Cubs, Boy Scouts and parents to do something fun together. One of the biggest hits has been "frisbee golf", which is basically laying out a course in whatever area you have to play in and using frisbees to play a round of golf. If done right, it allows the Cubs to earn a belt loop, spend quality time with their parents, and allows the Boy Scouts the opportunity to develop leaders skills by being judges. Everyone seems to enjoy this activity, along with others that we do. Flag football, soccer, baseball, and softball are other popular sport activities and painting, map and compass and science are popular academic activities.

 

The key is getting parents involved. Without them a program won't last.

 

[MarkS]

After skimming through this thread, I saw a lot of great ideas for saving a pack, but didn't see any opinions whether DenZero's pack is worth saving.

 

Personally, I don't think it is worth saving. The situation I see based on the description herein is that the local community has one very strong pack and seven boys in another just trying to muddle through with a monthly combined pack/den meeting. This is not much of a program and recruiting last fall was a bust as a result.

 

Seems to me that it'd be best to pull up tent stakes and transfer to the other unit and make your contribution there.

 

Additionally, I don't see how you can charter the struggling unit anyway. It's mentioned that they have Tiger, Cub Scout, and Webelos aged boys. A charter requires a registered den leader at each age level they have scouts, a Cubmaster, two Committee Members (or one Committee Member and a Pack Trainer), and a Committee Chair... and each of these positions must be filled by a different person. That's seven adults needed to charter the unit (I am assuming they have a Chartered Org Rep--it doesn't matter if that rep fills one of the other positions). Yet DenZero says they have two official leaders and a total of 4-5 adults willing to help out. I expect their current charter has some positions filled by empty uniforms.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[ScoutNut]

Actually what their Pack needs to recharter is -

 

1 COR (who can also be dual registered as CC or a Committee Member)

1 CM

1 CC

2 Committee Members

1 Den (Tiger, Wolf, Bear OR Webelos) Leader

5 Youth Members

 

The requirement to have 1 den leader for each level you have boys for was dropped a few years back.

[Fuzzy Bear]

You make the decision on pulling the plug. It is your energy that is required to engage in a meaningful experience. It is generally easier to go to a Pack that is already under way. It is more fun to put one together. It will make a memory worth retelling. fb

[Beavah]

Yah, DenZero, I think you've found the real need in your own reflections, eh?

 

Your pack's problem is with adult leadership. Before you can get any boys, you need a Cubmaster who can give time and energy. Parents join packs, not kids so much. Parents are lookin' at the leadership.

 

You don't mention how far apart the North and South and Parochial schools are. That makes some difference in the "let it die?" question. If it's easy for kids at North to get to South for meetings, etc., that's different than if there's some distance. You also don't mention the size of the schools and the size of the large pack. Can the schools support a pack, numbers-wise? Is the large pack getting "too big"?

 

Generally, though, I hate to see a Pack that had some energy fold, especially with a strong troop relationship. Packs seem to rise or fall on the leadership of the moment, and it may well be that in another year or two the South School Large Pack will turn over leaders and suddenly shrink. Havin' another active program in the area is important.

 

Go to the school PTO, get to know the "active" well-organized moms, find one with a husband who's a former scout. Either the mom or the dad need to have an outgoing, kid-friendly personality. That one is your Cubmaster. Talk to the church youth minister / Bible School director, and ask the same questions, looking for the same kind of people. Bring in a UC or DE who you think is a good "pitch man" to help with the sale.

 

Wherever you go looking for a CM, you need personality and time availability. They have to bring positive energy and organization.