Boy Scouts minimum age or grade in school

[eghiglie]

Just seeking advice here.

 

In the 4th grade Webelos Den I lead we have 5 scouts. 3 of them had been held back in school during the 1st grade for a variety of reasons and in the past years have overcome those issues. Maturatity wise they are very good scouts.

 

However, they will be turning 11 during the coming summer, before they go to 5th grade. The three parents were looking over options on what to do?

 

The 3 boys have camped a lot and have all earned Webelos.

 

The AoL requirments do allow a boy who 10 years old plus six months to earn the AoL.

 

We were talking about a May corssover for them, but would a troop accept or reject a 5th grader who happens to be 11?

 

[CNYScouter]

From: http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank1.html

 

Boy Scout Joining Requirements

Effective May 15, 2004, Requirement 1 will be changed, as shown below, to establish a minimum age of 10 years old for all new Boy Scouts

 

Old Requirement 1

1. Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade, or is 11 years old, or has earned the Arrow of Light Award, but is under 18 years old.

 

New Requirement 1

1. Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade and be at least 10 years old, or be 11 years old, or have earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old, and be under 18 years old.

 

but would a troop accept or reject a 5th grader who happens to be 11?

 

The answer may differ from Troop to Troop.

All the Troops I know would welcome these boys.

 

 

 

[scottteng]

The program is set up to be age appropriate not school grade appropriate. An eleven year old will get very bored in cub scouts and should be in boy scouts. Many councils make the boys transition when they turn eleven as they are considered to no longer meet the cub scout requirements "If you are a boy in first grade through fifth gradeor you're 7 to 10 years old" There are many 10 yr old scouts having earned their AOL and crossed over

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with CNY. Most troops I know would accept these boys with only a moment's thought, just to make sure it was right for the boys, maturity-wise.

 

The only reason to wait would be if they have same-grade friends they want to stay with, and earn AoL with. I'd let that be the boys and their parents' choice.

[willhi1979]

I'd encourage the kids to stay in Webelos for another year. If they've been in Cub Scouting for a while, they are likely friends with the other kids. If they crossover with those other kids, it might help their transition to a Troop. I would talk to them too and ask them what they want. Do they want to stay with the other kids or go be in the Troop? A troop wouldn't reject them, but it might not be what's best for the boys. I joined a Webelos Den at 11 years old when I was in 5th grade. I earned the Webelos Badge and Arrow of Light using the normal requirements in that year. It took longer to earn Eagle, but I don't regret the extra time spent there.

[hendrickms24]

All,

 

I failed First Grade but was allowed to join Scout with the rest of my piers. Cubs started in 3rd Grade back in 1981, but if I was not allowed to join Scouts with the rest of my friends that would have been just another heart breaker! It took me years to get over failing first grade but being able to join scouting really helped myself esteem. If you hold back a scout because they are struggling in school its just a slap in the face to them. These children could have learning disabilities or worse so please don't penalize them for something thats out of their control.

 

thanks

Mark Maranto

Eagle Scout

[MollieDuke]

I'm posting this for a friend.

 

Is it ever possible for a 4th grader who may be 10 to cross over to Boy Scouts?

 

If I am understanding the requirements correctly, AoL MUST be 10 yrs 6months?

 

Also, do the requirements mean 5th grade as the year requirement with the age requirement as AND 10, or 11, or AoL (assuming it's 10 1/2)? I also interpret this as being possible for a 4th grade 1st year Webelo to be barely 10 and upon gaining an AoL (which frankly sounds like the proverbial Eagle Factory of BSA, IMHO), can join a troop. Having little experience in Cubs for around 8 years or more, I'm not sure how to explain this to my friend.

 

He's a new Advancement Coordinator for a Cub Pack, and he's trying to understand it all. His son's a Tiger, so he's really uninformed.

Thanks,

Mollie

[Lisabob]

Mollie,

 

AS I mentioned in the other thread on this topic (in advancement section), the current requirement is that a boy must be at least 10 and have earned Arrow of Light, or at least 10 and finished with 5th grade, or 11. Nowhere does it say he has to be 10 1/2 anymore.

 

A 10 year old who has earned his AoL while in 4th grade could join a troop. Whether or not this would be the "right" choice depends a great deal on the boy, the troop, and the parents. But yes, he could do it.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

"I also interpret this as being possible for a 4th grade 1st year Webelo to be barely 10 and upon gaining an AoL (which frankly sounds like the proverbial Eagle Factory of BSA, IMHO), can join a troop."

 

 

Actually, not quite. The time requirement to earn AOL is -

 

"Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old)"

 

 

So, in order to earn AOL a 4th grader has to HAVE BEEN a Webelos for 6 months AFTER turning 10 years old. This means that if the 4th grade Webelos turned 10 in September, the earliest he could earn AOL, & cross to a BS Troop, would be in March. If the Webelos turned 10 in December, the earliest he could earn AOL & cross would be June. Also, if he turns 10 in June, at the end of 3rd grade, it would be possible to earn AOL as early as December. However, just to confuse you a bit, if the boy turns 10 in the summer after 3rd grade, but only joins Cub Scouts in September as a 4th grader, because he has to BE a Webelos for 6 months, the earliest he could earn AOL would be be March.

 

Clear as mud?

 

There is a format for earning the Webelos Badge & AOL in 1 year in the Webelos Leader book. This is not there so Packs can create "AOL mills". The 1 year program is an option for boys who, for whatever reason, only have 1 year left in Cubs & want to earn their AOL before they cross over to Boy Scouts. Some of these reasons can be a boy who joins in 5th grade, a boy who was held back in school & boys in the LDS program.

 

The Latter Day Saints have adapted the BSA program to fit their churches youth program. The boys in LDS units move up to the next level on their birthday, not at the end of the school year. They start in Cubs when they turn 8 as a Wolf. On their 9th birthday they become a Bear, 10th b-day they become a Webelos & on their 11th b-day they become a Boy Scout. They are only a Webelos for 1 year.

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[eghiglie]

 

>> Is it ever possible for a 4th grader who may be 10 to cross over to Boy Scouts?

 

The requirements read Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old)

 

>> If I am understanding the requirements correctly, AoL MUST be 10 yrs 6months?

 

Yes, that is one option.

 

>> Also, do the requirements mean 5th grade as the year requirement with the age requirement as AND 10, or 11, or AoL (assuming it's 10 1/2)?

 

No, this is an OR type of requirement.

 

It is quite possible for a boy to earn AoL in 4th grade, the LDS packs do it this way and the Webelos Leaders Guide offers a few options. One intresting thing I learned was that in my Council we have a lot of boys who were held back in Kindergarten or 1st Grade and then matured faster.

 

In the case of a few boys I know they are quite ready for a Troop. They and there Parents don't think that another 8 or 9 months as a Cub would be of benefit. In fact the boy could get so bored that he drops out of Cubs.

 

I also know a number of boys who joined in 5th grade, took on the challenge and earned AoL in 8 months.

 

So I think the bottom line of this is each boy and his matrurity level. Does the boy present his badge work at the Den versus his Parents? Does the boy finish up badge work on his own? Does the boy start a badge without being asked?

[Beavah]

Yah, Mollie, you've gotten good answers, eh?

 

I would just add the thought that many non-LDS troops may be reluctant to accept 4th graders. Generally, 4th-grade-and-out is not something to encourage as a webelos den leader or cub advancement chair. 4th graders can have an awfully hard time fitting in and being successful in a program that's naturally designed for 7th/8th graders and includes high-school aged kids.

 

In a few cases, it's OK, eh? But generally, work on offerin' a full, complete, and fun webelos program that gets kids to AoL and crossover durin' their 5th grade year. Even that's a bit "early" for some kids.

 

 

[MollieDuke]

My friend who is the new advancement coordinator for cubs has been a scout, but it's been a long time for him. He's met the Webelos and feels they have those who seem ready and are in fifth grade crossing over this spring, but he was talking with one of the fellow Tiger parents whose older boy is a first year Webelo. He feels that since dad read somewhere that his boy could cross over "early", that he's been rather insisting he do so. Not sure what the motivation there is, since he's not even friends with the second years. He's fairly certain this boy is not ready mentally or emotionally as he still has to have an adult help him with everything and doesn't work in groups well either. He feels the next year will be a good time to wean him off the "parent help" track into Boy Scouts, but the dad is adamant that his boy move on up. He didn't tell me all this at first, but I'm not surprised once he told me which family it is. This family wants their boys to always be "first" at everything even in the water fountain line.

 

That said, I agree with Beavah in many ways. I think that we're so into the "fast track" we forget that just because a kid may be able to finish activity pins in a year (and it's mostly my experience that it's with "parent assistance", but it's just personal experience), it doesn't mean that this child is ready to successfully interact in an environment that is full of high school boys. Example: We have one boy who came up at the appointed time, AoL and all that, went into second class fairly quickly, but made the entire troop miserable with his whining, tattling on older boys for "picking on him" or "playing too rough" or whatever. This group always has an ASM present during games and activities to watch the boys and these men said that it was just the difference in high schoolers playing football or whatever and this little fella trying to play with them instead of them picking on him. To make a long story short, the game time had to be cut short nearly every meeting due to arguments that always happened whenever this kid was around. He simply wasn't mature enough to interact successfully with the troop as a whole. That year, though, we also had four other boys crossed over with this child who blended just fine. It was a matter of maturity. The immature scout actually quit just prior to his First Class BOR, and I feel certain it was just because he wasn't ready to interact on that level. The committee had many meetings over this issue and even during his BOR for up to second class, they tried to discuss his feelings on this, but it just didn't work out for him. (he nor his parents could handle the patrol method either, just in case you're wondering)

 

I wish these "fast track" people would do as Beavah says and use the entire time in Webelos ot create a fun, interactive program that includes preparedness for the next level at Crossover instead of just earning pins as quickly as humanly possible which I've seen over and over. I tell all my kids I work with that advancement is probably more about the journey than the result and they need to take time, just as on a hike, to enjoy the atmosphere in addition to getting to the destination. In our reward based society, though, it usually resonates on deaf ears.

 

I know there are those who have not had this experience, and things went well, but I can only speak from what I've seen in my little corner of the universe. I do really love being able to get other people's opinions, though. Helps with that tunnel vision. :-)

[John-in-KC]

FWIW,

 

LDS is following the Cubbing joining rules as they were 40 or so years ago. I don't know when they changed...

 

Join at 8... Bobcat/Wolf/Bear/Lion/Webelo... Boy Scout at 11.

Join at 9... Bobcat/Bear/Lion/Webelo ... Boy Scout at 11.

Join at 10...Bobcat/Lion/Webelo... Boy Scout at 11.

 

Program was defined on chronological age, not grade in school.

 

The worst part is the Boy Scout to Venturing transition is 14 AND completed the 8th grade, or 15.

 

My personal opinion is we have moved the program down too far. If I were President of the National Council for one day...

 

Tigers: 7 or 2d Grade.

Wolves: 8 or 3d Grade.

Bears: 9 or 4th Grade.

Webelos 1: 10 or 5th Grade.

Transition to Boy Scouts: 11 years old and completion of Fifth Grade.

 

I think the added maturity, and to some extent, the added physical strength, helps.

[MollieDuke]

I agree with John on so many levels as to age. My son joined a Crew at age 14 (in fact on his 14th birthday), but he got overwhelmed early on with the requirements. He did finish his bronze award, but has no desire to do more at this time which is ok by me.

 

I do feel we're bringing this down to boys who are too young in so many respects. I teach kids and I know they are just not capable of some of the intense organization and thought process of Boy Scouting at such a young age. I also have very few young kids who can read at the level required in the manual and MB books. May be a local problem, but they do have trouble with it, so it is hard for them.

 

If they were a bit older, I do believe it would help, but then they get into the school activities and all, so many leave anyway, so not sure they'd continue, but I've seen so many over the years drop out because they are just to young to handle it so it's just not fun.

 

Just my experience.

[NeilLup]

Not to be too confusing, but there is no requirement at all that a boy be 10.5 to earn the AOL If he completes the 4th grade at 9, he can start on AOL then and finish at 9.5. I know a person who finished the 5th grade at 8, so it can happen. Not at all a good idea to have boys going that fast, but it does meet the letter of the requirement.

 

The other challenge has been the homeschooling parent who says "Well I certify that my 7 year old has finished the 5th grade, so of course he can be a Boy Scout." It is grade skipping and homeschooling that caused the firm age 10 requirement to be instituted.

 

The most important thing is "What's best for the Scout?" That can get very different answers from a parent and from an experienced Scout leader.

 

To answer your original question, by and large 11 year old boys do just fine in Boy Scouting. I would encourage those boys to become Boy Scouts.