dealing with uninterested scouts

[JeffD]

we have 1 tiger who can be disruptive at most of the meetings. he seems to have a bad attitude about most of the events usually saying he doesnt want to participate. most recently, at a pack meeting, he was chanting "i hate webelos 2" loud enough for most at the table to hear. he then turned to a 4 yr old girl and said he was going to "beat the crap out of her". you can also count on him to show up to the pack meetings wearing only his blue shirt and leather shoes as part of the uniform (i think he got 40/100 points in a uniform inspection).

 

from his actions this year, i believe that the only reason he is there is because mom is the Web.2 leader where brother has been going. by his "i hate webelos 2" chant, i am sure he is looking for attention. when he was talked to that night - he said nothing was wrong and went back to his moping.

 

i know mom is not involved with him, and he has had 1 meeting where he had an adult partner (boyfriend of the mom). it seems to me that he might have a better attitude if he had someone there with him, but right now it seems he is only there because its cheaper than a year of babysitting.

 

it unfair to the boys that want to be there to have someone who is diruptive all the time - but i am more upset at the unprovoked threat he made towards the little girl. thoughts??

[msnowman]

You say he's had one meeting where he has had an adult partner. Did something change in Tigers just recently? I was still under the impression that all Tigers must have an Adult Partner at ALL activities. If he is really coming with no adult partner that is the one thing that needs to be addressed and fixed. I know the Tiger program underwent some changes this year, but afaik the Adult Partner thing is still a must (though someone with better knowledge than mine may be able to correct me if I'm wrong - always ready to learn).

 

Is there anything about Tigers/Cub Scouts that he does like? I have a Web I who can be very disruptive (though without the bad attitude - he is more of the "wow, she's hot" type right now). I put him to work with the things he enjoys doing, putting him on stage, etc. If there is something he does like, get him headed in that direction.

 

When Nephew was a Cub Scout the other boy in his den who was only there because of his mother. She was a "he's my last chance at Eagle" mom. This boy professed to HATE everything about Cub Scouts but we were able to find some things that he did enjoy. He made it thru AoL (took lots of prodding and work on the DL & my part).

 

If he doesn't want to participate in what you are doing how about asking him and his adult partner to plan the activity for the next month? Sometimes giving them ownership of the program helps them find a way to enjoy it. Again, unless this changed this year, that is the theory (though not always the practice) behind Tiger Dens - a Den Leader and Shared leadership w/ all the Tiger pairs.

 

As far as his threat towards the little girl - you say it was unprovoked. Were you with them the whole time? No, it is never okay to threaten someone - but perhaps she had been teasing him earlier. 4 and 6 or 7 isn't that far apart in age...Heck, in some states she would already be in kindergarten, thus just a year behind him. I'm not excusing his behavior (and again, if he had an adult partner, that should be the first person to deal with it), but I'm saying that maybe his comment was as unprovoked as you might initially believe. Bullying and threatening might be a good topic for your next den meeting...address the issue w/o mentioning names. Maybe some role play games, being sure to let this boy take a shot at being victim.

 

Good luck

YiS

Michelle

[ScoutNut]

The first question that comes to mind is who & where is his Tiger Partner?

 

"i know mom is not involved with him, and he has had 1 meeting where he had an adult partner (boyfriend of the mom). it seems to me that he might have a better attitude if he had someone there with him,"

 

If mom signed on as the adult partner then she should be at his side at EVERY activity, den & Pack. If boyfriend is signed on as the adult partner then he should be a registered, background checked, member of the BSA and at this boys side at EVERY activity, den & Pack.

 

As a Tiger, his partner is supposed to be with him, working with him, disciplining him, playing with him, leading the den with him, at ALL times.

 

If he comes to a Tiger den meeting without his partner, send him home. Do NOT allow him to stay at your den meeting on his own. At Pack meetings make sure his mom is with him. Even if it means sitting the Webelos next to the Tigers so she can do both things.

 

If, at Pack meetings, he starts being disruptive or mean, calmly let him know that is not how a Scout behaves & take him to his Tiger Partner & let the partner know what he has been up to.

 

You are not his partner, parent, or babysitter. Let his mother know that.

 

[Jeffrey H]

The mother (the Web 2 leader) needs to take control of this situation. She will have to be a Tiger Partner as well as the Web 2 leader. Sorry Mom, but you will have to wear 2 hats in your Pack.

 

I would suggest that the Tiger in question sit with her mother during Pack meetings. It does not matter if he sits with the Web 2 den. What matters is that he is with his ADULT PARTNER.

 

[JeffD]

Events he likes?? - running around the other tiger leader has talked to him before about his attitude and has been telling me for a few weeks that he doesnt want to be here (in scouts).

 

You are correct tiger cubs is supposed to be adult/scout for all events. The mom had asked at the beginning of the year, as a favor, if one of our leaders would watch her son since she was a leader. The other leader agreed to keep an eye on him for the meetings.

 

I completely agree that he needs to have an adult with him at all times. As I mentioned - mom is a Webelos leader and seems to be more involved with the older son. I dont know if the boyfriend of the mom is involved with the kids or if he even lives with them.

 

My opinion right now is she needs to step down as a leader and concentrate on both of her kids - or concentrate on the younger kid who would be less likely than his Webelos 2 brother to act up in the meetings. I also think the pack leaders might be worried that she will quit if

 

As for the unprovoked incident - my wife witnessed it and it happened to my daughter I didnt find out about this until after the meeting as I was busy with uniform inspections and awards. My wife was sitting next to my daughter (who was playing with a toy - content with herself) and the scout was on the other side.

 

My wife was paying a little more attention to the other scout as she has known the boy's mother when they were in a moms club. This was also as he was chanting his hatred of Webelos. She found that behavior weird as he used to be a much happier kid. Meanwhile mom was with the other scouts and had a den meeting while the rest of the awards were being handed out but thats another rant 

 

I was obviously upset that it happened to my daughter, but I would be upset if it happened to ANY of MY scouts or their siblings.

 

[JeffD]

" I would suggest that the Tiger in question sit with her mother during Pack meetings. It does not matter if he sits with the Web 2 den. What matters is that he is with his ADULT PARTNER. "

 

good advice - thanks for this

[eghiglie]

 

Tigers are supposed to have an adult partner with them at all times. If he doesn't then mom needs to move over to be with him. Maybe just sit the two dens next to each other.

 

Believe it or not little girls tease boys too, he might of reacted the only way he knew how to.

 

 

[eagle-pete]

Forgive me, but this does not appear to be an issue of an uninterested scout - That is an entirely different problem and topic. Without much info to go on here, I am speculating that there may be some issues going on at home which need to be addressed.

 

At any rate, a Tiger Partner would seem to be a prerequisite - regardless of the Tiger Program policy on whether to have the Tiger Partner attend every meeting. This boy needs close supervision at ALL meetings IMO. If this issue is not taken care of now, he will carry it into Cub Scouting and will BECOME the "uninterested" scout JeffD is referring to. Remember, he is ONLY 7 YEARS OLD. This can be corrected relatively easily now, where it will become significantly more difficult as the boy gets older.

 

Have a meeting with the mother (not the boyfriend) and discuss what the expectations are in Tiger Cubs and how the Tiger Partner fits into the picture.

 

Eagle Pete

[JeffD]

eagle-pete - i agree theres more to it than just being uninterested. if i were to speculate - it sounds like he is acting out for the attention of his mother.

[evmori]

It sound like there are more issues here than your Pack can handle. That's not a bad thing. If this kid's behavior is a carry over from home, then it is up to mom to deal with it, not you. I would have talk with mom, explain the situation & tell her she needs to handle it. And also tell her if she doesn't, her disruptive son will be suspended from the Pack. An entire Pack can't suffer because of the action of one disruptive boy.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ScoutNut]

"The mom had asked at the beginning of the year, as a favor, if one of our leaders would watch her son since she was a leader. The other leader agreed to keep an eye on him for the meetings."

 

I am a bit confused. What difference does it make that she is a leader? I have had a few den leaders who were also Tiger Partners. Our CM was even Tiger Partner for a few of his sons. They all managed to attend Tiger meetings & other activities with their Tiger, along with their other duties.

 

Do all of your dens meet at the same time & place? If so, then she needs to think about finding a different time for her Webelos to meet (& NOT during a Pack meeting! SHEESH!).

 

You need to have a talk with your other Tiger leader & this mom & let her know that she needs to step up to her commitment with her Tiger son. Be firm & do NOT let her use you as a babysitting service.

 

Tigers MUST have an Adult Partner present - period.

[Lisabob]

I agree with others that Mom's lack of involvement is both a problem in its own right and probably a symptom of other family-life issues. If she has a WII boy and she's a den leader she also ought to know that this is not how the program works. I think the Tiger leader who initially caved in to mom's request to keep an eye on the kiddo meant well but did a dis-service to all parties here. So step 1 is for that den leader to let mom know it just isn't working and that they need to revisit the issue.

 

Keeping in mind that we're talking about a first grader here, I'm not in favor of suspending the boy from the pack as some have suggested. Six year olds are not known for their ability to weigh the costs of their actions. And most of the time when they act out, there is a fairly clear problem that is resulting in that behavior (like Mom's absence and whatever else is going on at home), that is out of their control. They just don't know how to express it in what we'd consider to be a more socially acceptable manner. Not to excuse inappropriate behavior - the boy needs some clear limits - but let's work on the adults rather than tossing a disruptive first grader out without some serious effort first to deal with the problem.

 

Lisa

[Eagledad]

>>Not to excuse inappropriate behavior - the boy needs some clear limits - but let's work on the adults rather than tossing a disruptive first grader out without some serious effort first to deal with the problem.

[JeffD]

i think i am closing in on whats happeneing here.

 

about 1.5 yrs ago - the boyfriend moved in with the mom. this also introduced another boy into the house. ever since the oldest boy moved in, the youngest (and my tiger) has had a dramatic change in personality. i am sure he is being bullied by the 2 older boys in the house and is just trying to gang up on someone smaller than he is.

 

you ask - how do i know he is bullied? the same 2 boys are the ones that get yelled at after each meeting for running around and screwing around on the microphone. or if a picture is to be taken, they are doing some sort of jackass stunt to be noticed. and last night they grabbed the slide from one of my tigers and were playing keep-away from him. when the mom told them to stop - the one boy tried to hide the slide in his pocket and they said they werent doing anything. both boys are pretty husky (pushing 200 lbs and almost 6' tall) and the tiger they took the slide from is not near that size. their brother - and the tiger i talk about - seems pretty small compared to the other tigers in the den. if youve ever seen the movie Billy Madison - think of the O'Doyle family

 

if the kid sees it all the time in the home - he thinks it is normal and will show the behavior elsewhere.

 

[evmori]

So the problem that is being dealt with in the Pack is a result of what is happening at home!

 

Makes sense!

 

Sounds like it's time to do what I suggested before - have a sit down with mom & explain what the repercussion could be!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10