MAX age for Arrow of Light?

[evmori]

I agree with the others but I'll bet this is the type of parent who will push this to the limit.

[Lisabob]

Since the original post was four years ago, I sort of doubt we're going to find out more about what happened.

 

Slow day on the board?

[ScoutNut]

Well there was the new post on 11/6 from SanDiegoScouting.

 

Granted, it could just be a troll, but with divorced parents you never know. They do strange things sometimes.

[Lisabob]

Oops, somehow I missed that new question. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

On that one, I have to say: why on earth did dad sign his kid up for a boy scout troop, knowing full well that junior is still in his cub scout pack at his other "home?" I admit I'm feeling a bit under the weather and maybe misunderstood something, but - really?

 

Yes of course, boy scouts is fun. But all things in due time. Let the boy experience and enjoy his cub experience all for himself - don't rush him just because YOU wanted him to do something different. This conundrum was entirely avoidable and has been created by dad registering the boy in a boy scout troop while the boy still is a cub scout elsewhere.

 

So: if I were now to give advice to "dad" it would be: quietly ask the troop to just hold off on the boy's formal registration with the troop (if it has not been actually submitted yet). Explain that there was an error, since the boy is still in cubs and won't be done with cubs until the upcoming Blue & Gold in ?February?. Ask if, between now and then, the boy might continue as a visiting guest to the troop, but not as a formal member. That also means any rank advancements in the troop need to wait until he is a formal member.

 

This would allow the boy to enjoy the last of his time as a cub, and to earn his AoL. THEN he can register as a boy scout.

 

To do otherwise puts him in a very difficult "in between" situation, and it is bound to create other problems down the road in terms of his advancement records.

 

And I would also recommend: if the boy will continue on to join a troop in his other home (with mom), then you and mom need to figure out how to coordinate his activities and advancements with the two troops so that he isn't earning, say, Second Class in one troop before earning Tenderfoot in the other. It can be done, but it is going to require people to communicate openly and effectively with one another, for the boy's sake.

 

 

 

 

[qwazse]

SanDiegoScouting - Jump the gun a little? Hold off on scoutmaster conferences for Tenderfoot and Second class until the boy crosses over with his buddies. Ask if a representative or two from the troop you "joined" can come to the crossover ceremony.

 

If the troop paperwork hasn't been pushed, don't ask it to be. Otherwise, just let your boy be a guest in his former den -- if he wants -- until February. Technically, a youth can't be dual registered in a Pack and a Troop, so your registration should be a transfer. But, if the pack will let the boy be a cub when he's at mom's, don't sweat the details.

 

If on the other hand, the boy wants to change epaulets and show the rank he earned, he can ask for an earlier cross-over ceremony. This can happen at a den or pack meeting. It may inspire an "on-the-fence" Webelo to get on the stick and wrap up his requirements.

 

This is a big transition -- to your son it may be as big as the Grand Canyon. Give it due honor. I'm sure his mom would appreciate a formal ceremony.

 

Also, maybe in terms of troop activities, you could suggest a few in locations close to where Mom lives -- give her a chance to see her boys troop in action.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

[SanDiegoScouting]

Hello ScoutNut and Lisabob,

 

Thanks for taking the time that you did to consider and reply.

 

As far as what ever possessed and why on earth.

 

The situation is I, like most, need to work during the day, even in the Summer. Taking time off to spend with my own son would be great, but due to the economy had already had to much time off between jobs and needed to log the hours on the project I was fortunate to become involved with.

 

During the Summer I need to find some place for that boy to be. Just letting him hang at home all day seams far from the best option. The Cub Scout pack he is a Webelo in goes dormant in the Summer. The Pack is only up and running during the school year.

My long time friend from way back when we were in Scouts had his son scheduled with their Troop to attend two (2) one week long Boy Scout camps. The one in the mountains is Same camp that my friend and I attended together has Scouts.

Now for it to come full circle and for our sons to have the opportunity to also attend the same camp together, had a good ring to it, sounded like it was something that should be and an opportunity not to let slip past.

 

The second Camp Emerald Bay is truly one of the most stellar camp experiences available any where and has left quite a positive impression on my Son!

 

I did have other non-Scout choices where I could have placed him but they paled in comparison. The two weeks in between the Boy Scout Camps, I put him in learn to sail day camps, held by the University. One of those sailing camp weeks my friends son also attended with him. My boy did a month straight of camps it was quite a Summer for him. Not such a shame at all for an 11 year old boy!

Plus he participated in a 10 mile and a 20 mile hike. A over night campout at a remote shooting range where they worked toward the Riffle Shooting MB. An over night campout at the bay then completed the 10 mile Salty Rat but on Kayaks not canoes, in prep for a three night Campout out Santa Cruz Island. Marched in a Parade. Volunteer time with Navy Fleet Week, Participated in an Eagle project and a all day field trip with a Geologist to multiple locations of mines and drill rigs for the Geology MB

 

When you write "Good Lord what a shame" consider he did all this and then some, all predominately while the Cub Pack had signed off for the Summer. The Boy Scout Troop also suspends regular meetings during the Summer but not to go dormant, it's because they are so incredible active. They also did rim to rim of the Grand Canyon a 10 day Sierra trek on the John Muir trail which included the Mt. Whitney Summit, and a 10 day Philmont trek.

 

The boy actually hasn't missed any of the Cub/Webelo experiences as is offered by his Pack. He has had perfect attendance at their meetings and events. I see where you write he can't be a Cub Scout AND a Boy Scout at the same time. Is this just a gut feeling of yours because thats the norm, or is it actually written some place?

 

Because he's living proof that it can physically be done! The fact is, he has been actually doing quite well at both.

 

As far as "all things in due time" he is 11 going on twelve. Next year when his Den/classmates are 11 going on 12 that year of their life they will be able to do all the Boy Scout camps, hikes and events. So the thinking is, it was all in due time that he started Scouts when he did. You only get to be 11 once!

 

It all got started in second grade when we found out his classmates where Cub Scouts so he joined and was naturally place in a den with them. It has been a great group they, as well as all the parents get along famously. It didn't occur to me at the time that maybe he should have been placed in the Den with the boys from one grade up so as to match his age come transition time to Boy Scouts.

 

As the years rolled by and it started dawn on me that it would present some transition to Boy Scouts issues the group was so well bonded it didn't feel right to just leave the Den. Plus in spite of a decent program the Den had slowly dwindled over the years from has many as 8 to only 3 but still with a good Den dynamic about it. But at that point if my son was pulled from the Den, it seamed it would cripple what was left of the Den experience for the others.

 

Is it accurate, I think it is, that you have earned a rank when you have completed and been signed off on all the requirements at that point you are that rank? And that the formal presentation on ceremony night is actually just icing on the cake. If for some reason the blue and gold dinner was cancelled the boys that had meet the requirements have still earned the next rank or AOL. My son has in fact way over met all the requirements for AOL within the age and grade restrictions and if I check back closely it could be before he made rank of Scout in the Boy Scouts, but I'm not certain it is close if he can go by that?

 

I did feel out reg. papers along with A,B and C, med. forms for him to be eligible for the Boy Scout camps. So most likely it's to late for holding off on formal registration in Boy Scouts. Unless by chance they didn't actually get around to forwarding all the forms, possible but not likely. That was a suggestion that would go for, if I could. But I think with this Troop for insurance reasons a visiting Webelo probably wouldn't have been allowed to attend at least the extended camps with them.

 

What I have explained to my Son, who knows he has in fact earned the Arrow of Light and wanted to wear it on his uniform.

 

Is, if you held that little patch in the palm of one hand and just so much as the six nights and seven days on Catalina Island participating in Camp Emerald Bay in the other hand.

Would you trade the patch for that week in camp let alone the other week in camp and all the other Scout events he has already done and a quick smile came to his face with the answer "no" he wouldn't trade all that to be officially awarded the AOL.

I told him he may well need to be happy with knowing in his heart that he did in fact earn the AOL. And that maybe you can go to the blue and gold and be their for your buddies and greet them has they crossover the little lashed together bridge.

On the future when his Den to the North does go on to the Boy Scout level I think it well present lots of opportunity's he can go to the camps from both Troops, twice the fun!

He has already, at the direction of the Troop to the South started keeping track of all hikes and events in a binder and he can just bring it to both Troops to keep everybody on the same page where he is in advancement.

 

Is the AOL even a requirement to Eagle? Yes I can see where this would if it ever even comes to it, would be awkward to explain to an Eagle board of review.

 

[SanDiegoScouting]

Hello qwazse,

 

It is a big deal to him and I'm all for giving it the due honor it deserves. As long as it doesn't have him getting cross threaded with any of the 12 items in the Scout Law.

 

Plus the Pack does a pretty darn good job of the ceremony at the Blue and Gold dinner and as I wrote before he has long looked forward to his time. being that without him they would only have two boys crossing over this year I think they would be happy to have him participate. Even if he was already a Scout coming back just to partake in the actual ceremony

 

He has earned the rank of "Scout" via Scoutmaster conference they wanted that before he went off to camp with them.

 

With both Boy Scout camps and all the other events he has already just recently had Scoutmaster conferences for Tenderfoot and Second Class.

 

But has not yet had the required Board of Review to be awarded the ranks.

 

I think the pack would be fine with him continuing to attend as a guest and for sure the Den would be.

 

So do you think taking all else into consideration if he holds off the the Tenderfoot and Second class board of review until after this months upcoming Pack meeting and if they are willing to do a pre-crossover that he could still legitimately get the Arrow of light at that point.

 

Because now the Troop down south has started up it's re-registration drive to have all the papers in order for re-chartering.

where as when he first signed up with the Troop, I did fill out reg forms and had my checkbook out but they did not want any money because they said it was just a partial year at that point and they would just wait to the start of the new year to take registration money.

 

But now perhaps when I write a check for there December registration drive he would be even more officially if thats possible, a Scout. Perhaps I could drag my heals a little on writing that check.

 

For the AOL does it go by when somebody hands it to him and shakes his hand or when he actually completed the requirements?

 

He's current with the Pack as his registration was paid late September. So far with the different registrations have heard no feed back or questions from central headquarters. Either their computer isn't programed to cross reference names,

his forms are in a big stack on somebody's desk and haven't been entered yet

 

or the Troop down South was waiting for the start of this new year to send in his forms with a check attached.

 

 

[Lisabob]

I completely understand your desire to find fun and worthwhile things for your son to do in the summers. That is not so much a problem, to my mind. The adventures he has had do sound wonderful.

 

You ask whether AoL is an Eagle requirement. No, it is not. However, when a boy turns in Eagle paperwork it will list various dates on there, including when AoL was earned and when he joined the troop and when each boy scout rank was earned. In the situation you describe, this could be sort of a mess. While it might end up being a minor issue, this is a tangle that could have been avoided.

 

You ask whether it is really not allowed for a boy to register both as a cub and a boy scout, because your son has physically done it. Well, you're right I'm sure, that your boy has done this. I venture to guess that the pack and troop are probably in separate BSA councils, and so they probably don't have a solid record keeping system to cross-reference this. He is probably a "cub" in one council data base, and a "boy scout" in the other. Even if the two units are in the same council, it is extremely common for councils to keep sloppy records.

 

So is it physically possible? Yes, of course. But the program is still set up in such a way that boys are either cub scouts OR boy scouts, but not both at the same time. What you've done is found a loophole. It apparently works for you right now and that's your business at the end of the day. I wish you and your boy all the best in scouting, and in other aspects of life.

[evmori]

Now I am totally confused. This boy went to Boy Scout camp as a Cub or Boy Scout? If it was as a Cub, anything he earned is null and void for Boy Scouts.

[SanDiegoScouting]

Hello evmori

Third line down of the, Hello qwazse post Monday 11/8/10:

 

He has earned the rank of "Scout" via Scoutmaster conference the Troop wanted that before he went off to camp with them.

 

I don't have his Webelos book or accurate records with me, it's all about an hour North of here as to at which point in time my son actually completed the requirements for AOL. To his credit the Den Leader as kept track of all the advancements. Their is a chance that he actually earned the AOL before he became a Scout.

[afscout]

It is sad to see how far parents will go to make sure their son get a piece of cloth or metal. I believe that scouting is not about making Eagle, but character development. Which is better, a boy who gets his AOL via his parents arguing/bullying/threatening/bending the rules/etc. or a boy who did not get his AOL, but learned at an early age that there are hard consequences stemming from his choices/actions.

 

Yes, we use beads/ranks/awards to motivate the boys and keep them interested. But parents need to understand that it's all games with a purpose. You don't go through scouting to get the ranks, you do it to help develop good character. Cheat at the game and you lose the purpose.

[Basementdweller]

So a registered Cub Scout when to summer camp as a registered boy scout???????

 

Dad you need to find a ball bat and swing it real hard into your nether regions. You deserve it....Wake up, geezzzzz

 

What in the world are you doing?

 

Summer activities, there is webelos resident camps.

 

 

A scout is trustworthy.....his arrow of light quest is OVER. It ended when you signed him up for Boy Scouts. If you continue to pursue it you are violating the oath and law he will be taking for the next 6 or so years.

 

If you get it for him, YOU know and understand it is a lie and you violated the Requirements to get it.

 

You are also dishonoring every scout who has earned the award by following the requirements.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)