Has scouting become a buisness for numbers / money

[Bob White]

I apologize if it sounded like gamesmanship NJ, that was not my intent.

 

If I understood your post, you were saying that some people think that district and council volunteers and professionals focus on numbers, and I agreed, I think they do. I just don't see it as a negative. They focus on numbers so that the unit leaders can focus on program. It is the growth in the measurable areas of membership, manpower and money that helps keep the movement moving.

 

I don't think its bad that people think of us as being growth oriented, I just wish more unit volunteers realized that that was a good thing.

 

Believe me no harm was intended.

Bob White

[Quixote]

NJ says You surprise me, BobWhite, by twisting my words and meaning

 

- there's a lawyer joke there somewhere.

[bt01]

At any level of Scouting (Cub, Boy and Venturing) it is the program that draws in the youth to Boy Scouts. As adults we should help deliver the program to them. If you are at the local unit, district or council level the goal is the same. If you have a good or outstanding program you should have a health unit.

If you are at the unit level, our goal should always be to provide scouting program to as many boys as possible. If your unit is growing, then we are delivering the program.

 

Has Scouting become a business of numbers??? NO. Run a good program and the numbers will take care of themselves.

Numbers is a great way to measure yourself over time. It tells us if the people are interested in what we are giving them.

 

[Rooster7]

Why would anyone stand in the way of growth (i.e., offering the program to as many boys as possible)? Who would argue against such a concept?

 

Of course, the safe and Scout friendly answer, is no one. I don't disagree. Yet, I would like to offer this thought. We need to ensure that in our attempts "to offer the program to as many boys as possible", we don't change the program simply to increase those numbers. Numbers ARE important, but they're not everything.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Hmmm, BobWhite and Rooster agreeing with each other on an issue outside of the "politics" folder, maybe we should stop this before the Earth and Moon break free from their orbits and go crashing into each other.

 

Maybe this is all semantics, I don't know. I just see a difference between "get more boys" and "get more boys by the end of the month so I can put them on my spreadsheet." After tonight's meeting, I'll have to tell you how many boys we actually get. I'm hoping to register at least one full den of new Tigers tonight, and that the woman who told me that she and her husband would consider being a Tiger den leader(s) actually comes through.

 

I do need to comment on this statement by Rooster:

 

We need to ensure that in our attempts "to offer the program to as many boys as possible", we don't change the program simply to increase those numbers.

 

The BSA is constantly changing the "program," not the ideals and principles behind the program, but the program itself, and part of the motivation is to increase numbers. And there's nothing wrong with that. You can say that many of the changes are to "make Scouting more in keeping with changes in society" or that they are "based on research regarding the development of boys," but it really all amounts to the same thing. Scouting updates and improves its program so that those now a part of it will benefit, and will stay, and so that those not a part of it will be more likely to join, and will benefit from the changes when they do. It all works together, but numbers are part of it -- or all of it, depending on how you look at it.

 

Just look at the list of merit badges over the years. When I first looked at the Boy Scout requirements when I was 11 (in 1969), there were a number of merit badges related to farming, and relatively few related to industry, service trades and the modern economy. The first number has gone down, while the second number has gone up. Isn't that a change to conform to changes in society and the economy, and to build the numbers?

 

Now, I agree that changes can sometimes go too far. The BSA did that in the early 70s and took some of the "outing" of Scouting, as they say. (This was the era of what my father still calls the "rat bite handbook.") I think those changes are exaggerated when people look back today; I am sure most troops with a strong outdoor program (like mine) were not really affected because they continued doing what they were doing anyway; but such things as removing Camping and Cooking from the Eagle required list did not send the right message. There was carelessness in making the changes, many of which were changed back in less than a decade.

[Rooster7]

I could nit-pick and complain about the wording of a sentence or two, just to be argumentative. Despite some people's contentions, that's never been my motivation. I believe we are all in agreement. What I meant, and I believe you support this as well - Scouting is about character building, outdoor skills, mentoring boys, etc. We should not abandon the heart of the program because someone may have a clever idea as to how to bring in more boys. In other words, Scouting has a place and a purpose. We're not a sports club. We're not a chess club. We may do some of those things, but our "first love" is the outdoors. Our purpose is to help boys become healthy and honorable men. At least, that's how I see it.

[Mike Long]

NJ I also see that difference. More boys Vs. more boys by my review date.

 

That in my mind does call into question the motivations of some individuals and wether those motivations are in the best interest of the Scouting movement. I think that the latter motivation is not in our best interest or in the spirit of scouting.

 

Much the same, Scouting has not become a mere numbers game although there are some within our ranks that might be going that direction.

[GreyingWolf]

An organization uses numbers to measure things - hopefully progress. Sometimes the numbers, and the behavior they generate, can seem somewhat mercenary. Sometimes you have to think through the reasons for or impact of the numbers.

 

Professionals are encouraged to charter new units. To do that, they have to be in touch with the community. They grow a network of contacts, and generally promote Scouting. Not a bad thing.

 

Professionals are encouraged to increase membership. To do that, they resort to things like Tiger rallies - we just went thru that last week. If your pack is winding-down for the summer, that may seem a little silly - except that:

1) Summer is a great time for Tiger/family activities!

2) Tigers who have a good time in the summer will return in the fall.

3) Tigers who get busy on other things in the summer may well not be Cubs in the fall.

4) Summer is often a better time to get involved in Scouting than during the crush of returning to school.

5) Tigers who had a great summer program are a great recruiting vehicle in the fall!

[suzdvm]

As a newbie to this forum and scouting my "pearls of wisdom" aren't very pearly but I try to watch, listen, and ask a heck of a lot of questions.

 

Our council last fall- school scout night- with held the packets from the established units ( we will send them to everyone at the same time to have everyone on equal footing ) I asked for ours for a month before they told me that. Two weeks after the standard scheduled scout school night- that council told us not to do because they would get us our packets and help, I found our the new de had been to towns all around us (40 to 100 mile radius, and that is close for here ) recruiting and starting new units. They went to the school recruited boys, THEN found charter orgs, and assigned boys to dens and NEW packs.

 

YEAH!!! they got new boys and new leaders and new charter orgs. BUT, they did nothing to keep what they had?

 

WHAT GIves? I asked they said - there was a gap to fill, they would fill it then come back and help the rest of us. I am still waiting for the hlep.

Any comments, questions, or complaints that might get all of us out here help?

 

THANKS

 

SUZ