Webelos to Scouts

[suzdvm]

I need the wisdom of the "old timers" and those with extensive training.

 

I have a group of Webelos (5 out of 6) that have earned their Arrow of Light. (ceremony Friday night). Most will finish up all 20 achievement pins this weekend also. (one has already finished all 20).

Since they have earned their arrow, may they now enroll in Boy Scouts?

 

What I can find states- out of 5th grade,OR turn 11 years age OR earn Arrow of Light. Nowhere can I find AND.

 

The questions arises because these boys just finished fourth grade (10 years age). We met once a week throughout the school year and last summer. They are a very GOOD group of boys that know what they worked on. (they did what was expected of them AND a lot more because they wanted to)

 

So May they enroll in Scouts now or do they have to wait till next year?

 

My council office is giving me the run around on an answer. If I can get one from someone that knows, I will have confidence to tell the council the boys are enrolling or the parents they cannot.

 

thanks

[Mike Long]

Yes they can enroll in Boy Scouts.

 

You are correct there is no "and" in the requirements. They only need to satisfy one of the conditions and they have done so by completeing the AOL.

 

Congratulations and welcome to Boy Scouting.

[sctmom]

They can't earn their Arrow Of Light until they have been out of 4th grade for 6 months or at least 6 months since turning 10 years old.

 

I would NOT have them join Boy Scouts until next January or February (the traditional cross over time). They are not old enough to be Boy Scouts.

 

The Official wording for the AOL:

"Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. "

 

 

[Bob White]

Wow! Good catch sctmom. I too looked only at the Boy Scout requirements at first.

 

Sctmom is correct these scouts have not met the Arrow of Light requirement unless they are 10 1/2 or are out of the 4th grade for 6 months. these boys should not have gotten AOL until February.

 

That leads to what I was originally writing on this string that the Webelos program is an 18-month to 2-year program to give the boys a chance to learn the remaining cub skills and begin learning Boy scout skills. By rushing them through Webelos they have a greatly reduced chance of lasting the first year iin a scout troop. They need this next 6-months to reach the needed size and maturity.

 

Sending them to a troop at this early stage of development would not be a plus.

 

I recommend you sit down with the parents and explain the error in advancing them prematurely. I would continue to work with them in a Webelos two program until the appropriate time to advence. OR make sure they go to a troop that uses the NEW SCOUT PATROL method religiously with these boys. If you mainstream them into a regular patrol they will not last a year.

 

Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[suzdvm]

Ok, three answers in less than 30 mins!

 

WOW

two say yes go on , on says no.

On the one that says NO:

"The Official wording for the AOL:

"Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. " "

 

 

6 months past 10 yrs or 6 months past 4th grade:

The Council Office has already awarded the Arrow badges for the boys. They are not all 6 months past 10 or 4th grade. Do I take the badges back or let them keep them?

 

The two that say yes send on:

comments about the 6 months?

 

THANKS

 

 

(there is a danger of losing ALL 5 of the boys because they are not challenged and are bored with Cub Scouts already)

[Bob White]

suzdvm,

This error cannot be put in the council's lap. You and the pack advancement chair are the ones responsible for signing off on their requirements before they actually completed the requirements.

 

You need to what is in the best interest of the boys. Sending them to Boy Scouts at this time would be like sending them to high school as a ten year old. Although some boys may be mentally prepared for the lessons you cannot overlook their developmental readiness. The BSA has spent years studying the developmental growth of boys and feel that fourth graders today are not ready for the troop program.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[nldscout]

I have to agree with Bob, sending them to a troop would be a problem. As a Scoutmaster I think that this would cause some problems. 10yr olds are not ready for a normal troop program, especially an active troop problem.

 

You can't take the AOL award away from them now that you have awarded it. Sounds like earning the 20 pins was all they did, there are lots of things you could do for the next 6-8 months with them.

[sctmom]

Have they earned all the Webelos badges? Have them keep working on them and beltloops & pins. Impress upon them they get another year of Cub Scout camping with the family and the Pinewood Derby. They are now the "leaders" of the pack. Have them work with the new Webelos on requirements. Spend time checking out lots of troops, even if the boys think they know where they are going. Let them just have FUN! There is still so much for them to do as Webelos. If you haven't already, have them work as a patrol --- with a patrol leader. Do Boy Scout type activities/events --- set up a tent with all but one boy blindfolded, practice those knots, learn more about cooking outside.

 

If I was your Cubmaster I would hate to not have 2nd year Webelos in my group.

 

[Mike Long]

Wow, I only looked at the Boy Scout joining requirements and my response to go forward hinges on the accurate completion of the AOL. Unfortunately that has not been met.

 

I agree with Bob in all aspects.

 

The council assumes that units faithfully and accurately conduct advancement in accordance with the methods of the BSA. The task of doing this is the domain of the Cubmaster and unit committee.

[Mike Long]

A situation like this just screams for a Den Chief to work with these boys.

 

I have to agree with Sctmom. Use the skills they were taught and have fun with them. I would think that activities would be easier and more enjoyable now that advancement is covered. You can just concentrate on having fun.

 

What kid is bored by fun?

[eagle90]

I agree with nldscout. 10 years old is too early to join Boy Scouts, especially when the ages in the troop can range to 18 years. Thats too big a gap. The ten year old may not be able to pull his weight on camping trips, sports activities, and other such activities. we just took in ten Webeloes who all completed two years, and even some of them I cringe at because of their lack of stature and maturity. There is time enough for Boy scouts when they get older and can enjoy the program to its fullest.

[NJCubScouter]

I agree with all the comments and suggestions made so far (except for Mike Long's first post, which he no longer agrees with either.) In consultation with the parents and the boys, you should (and can) find appropriate activities and challenges to keep these boys interested until they have met the time requirements for Arrow of Light or have turned 11. (But of course if you go by age, they will not all be able to join a troop at the same time.) Sctmom made several good, specific, suggestions. I would focus on the outdoor skills aspect (while remaining age-appropriate for 10-year-olds) while providing continuing "advancement" opportunities through the Sports and Academics program. In particular, the pins in the Sports and Academic program have requirements that are not easy to meet. The boys could decide on one activity per month and pursue the belt loop and then the pin in that area. Some of the sports pins really require that you be a member of a team, but others, and the academic pins, do not. In many cases the requirements for the pins (particularly the academics) are considerably more difficult than the activity badges. So there should be more than enough things for them to do. Plus, if you focus them on outdoor skills, by the time they do cross over, they can be more prepared and confident because they will have had this "extra time" to practice.

 

I might even go so far as to get the Scout handbook and pick out some of the Tenderfoot and maybe Second Class skills for them to learn and practice, so that they can be ahead of the game when they have the opportunity to actually pass the requirements. But it would have to be done in such a way that when the time comes to do the requirement in the Boy Scout troop, the boys' attitude is not "been there, done that." They are NOT passing the requirement while a Webelos, they are just learning and practicing the skill. BobWhite, do you think that would be appropriate? I am not talking about the boys doing the First Class swimming or first aid requirements, but surely some of the Tenderfoot requirements would not be too far out of age-appropriate range. Where to draw the line probably depends on the boys themselves.

 

The bottom line is that these boys need to be in an age-appropriate program, and you are in a position to provide it, even though they have passed all the "traditional" Webelos requirements.

 

(I speak as the fellow parent of a fourth grader. He is already past 10-and-a-half and will turn 11 in October. If we wanted to, he could earn a few more activity badges and pass a few more requirements and earn the Arrow of Light by September, and then join a troop, or join in October regardless of the Arrow of Light. But what would be the point? I am very happy leaving him in the pack until February or March when the second-year Webelos traditionally graduate. At a few months past 11, I think he will be at least slightly better able to handle the challenges of the Boy Scout program. He also won't be the smallest and youngest kid in the group (especially if he is in a new-Scout partrol), an important consideration to me because he is somewhat meek-and-mild. I'm not talking about competitiveness, but I am talking about confidence. As long as he is a getting a Scouting program, I feel (and my son agrees) that there is no need to rush.)

[CubsRgr8]

Here are some ideas to pick and choose from to keep early AOL Webelos interested until they can crossover next February.

 

1) Have these boys function as much as possible as a patrol (name, patch on shirt sleeve, etc).

2) This summer, go to at least one overnight summer camp session just for Webelos (in my corner of the world, you could chose from sessions at several BSA camps, ranging from rustic to posh).

3) Get your BALOO training and go camping, just the patrol, once month as long as the weather permits.

4) Ask your Cubmaster to incorporate these boys in leadership roles at the pack meetings.

5) Participate as a patrol in as many camporees, klondike derbies, etc. as you can. Remember, you aren't limited to the ones in your District or Council.

6) Definitely visit as many troops as possible and choose one that will let them join as a new patrol, hopefully keeping their patrol name.

7) Start planning now for the ultimate crossover ceremony next February (complete with flaming arrows! or not!) that people will be talking about for the next ten years.

 

Good luck! It's great to hear of motivated boys and let us know how it works out, we all learn from each other's experiences.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

[Bob White]

suzdvm,

You have recieved some good advice here to keep the boys in cub scouts until February.

I caution you against treating them as Boy Scouts or working on Boy Scout requirements other than the Scout Badge requirements. They are not Boy Scouts yet, and you are not trained to teach scout skills or patrol or troop operation. Stick to what they are and what your training is. Otherwise you could do far more harm than good. (by the way you need Webelos Leader Outdoor Training to take them camping not BALOO)

 

Bob White

 

[ScouterPaul]

You have received excellent advice so far. As far as the 6 months requirement goes - as Cubmaster I consider the last day of school to be their first day in the next grade. Assuming school is out they are now 5th graders and should reach their six month requirement in November.

 

20 pins in one year sounds like a little to much to me. I would concentrate on outdoor activities with emphasis on scout skills such as setting up tents, knots, fire building, cooking ect. This is all the fun stuff that might keep their interest until they can cross over. I would also keep working on their Readyman requirements since First Aid is in just about every Boy Scout activity.

 

I curious have they done any campouts or hikes?

 

YIS

 

Paul