What do you tell the boys?

[sctmom]

The posting about the 14 year old discussing certain topics with the new scouts got me to thinking about what should I tell my son to do if he is around such talk.

 

I talked to him about this a little yesterday, telling him that if other boys start using words he knows are wrong, he should walk away. Don't try to correct them, just walk away.

 

Should he tell an adult? The adult part of ME says YES. The kid part of me says "tattle-tale and snitch".

 

Eventually the boys will run into this type of talk. If not within the troop, then from another troop.

 

What do you tell the boys to do? If you they report it, how do you protect them from retailition?

 

[ScoutParent]

I think it's important to teach your son to do what his conscience tells him is the right thing. There is no way you can insulate him from all possible repercussions but throughout life there are tough calls to make and the right ones are sometimes the hardest. I guess we also have to put a certain amount of trust in the leadership to be professional and keep the names of scouts that do speak out confidential when situations like this occur. It's important too, to let your son know that you are always there to support him and to come and talk to you about any situations that make him uncomfortable or that he has questions on. It could actually help someone like the older scout in the example that was used too. There may be a reason why he is speaking to younger scouts about inappropriate subjects (ie someone older may have broached him in a likewise inappropriate manner and he may be acting out)

[ScoutParent]

Probably one of the most important ideas to impart on your son is that no matter what anyone tells him you and your husband are adults and can protect yourselves and him so if anyone ever threatens your safety in exchange for his silence to come IMMEDIATELY to you and let you know because it is wrong. Pedophiles would have a much smaller chance to intimidate children if parents let them know this one important fact.

[OldGreyEagle]

When Scouts recite the Scout Law, and come to the "brave" part, I wonder what they think about. Is brave rescuing a baby from a fire? yes, it is. Is brave exposing yourself to enemy fire to recover a wounded comrade? yes it is. Many examples are expressions of bravery, unfortunately we have seen more than we may have wished since 9/11. But how many times in their day to day life do they get to "be brave"

 

BUT, the bravest thing a youth can do is stand up for what he knows is right in the face of ridicule and his peers. Inappropriate vocabulary is wrong, it is to be reported in any format the scout chooses. If we falter in any of the promises we make to the scouts, or if we show some things may be glossed over, we teach them nothing matters and all may be glossed over.

 

 

[jmcquillan]

When my own sons joined Scouting, that was the time I got involved. Almost immediately I was "offered" the opportunity to become the SM, but that's another whole thread. Knowing that the boys would be subject to ideas and words they might have not heard before, my wife and I decided that even at their young age, starting "the talk" at that age might prove worthwhile. We discussed concepts of foul language, sex, and inappropriate behavior. We discussed our own views on the subjects, how others might see these things differently, how we hoped our boys would treat the subjects, and, most of all, how Mom & Dad would always be open to any discussion the boys wanted to have on any of the subjects, no matter how embarrassing the boys might think the matter was. Better to have Mom & Dad's door wide open for anything, than to have the boys think they were on their own to figure things out, or believe only what other boys might tell them. And...we did get a lot of questions. But we were only too glad to field them and dispell any incorrect notions. We made it a point of asking, from time to time, how things were going on this front with the kids. Better to ask sometimes, than to wait for them to bring it up.

 

That thinking is what I used as my guide when having that very first introductory get together with new Moms & Dads as their boys joined the troop. I was quite open, but not specific in detail, of course, in telling these parents how my wife and I opened the doors for our boys, knowing all too well what they might be faced with. My stated purpose was to get these parents to understand that it's better that their sons learn certain concepts and ideas from them, than from other kids. And it's better that their sons know that Mom & Dad's door for questions and answers is always open. I also told them specifically that I, as SM, nor any of the other adult leaders, wanted to fill that role for them. We would, if necessary, field questions and handle situations when called upon, but would rather that M&D prepare their boys for a new level of life experience.

 

I also told the parents, and instructed the boys yearly, that my door was always open for any discussion, not to feel embarrased, and not to worry about being a snitch if they felt they had to tell me something. I told them all that I expected them to be on their best behavior all the time. And while I knew they couldn't possibly be perfect gentlemen (although I referred to them all that way), I expected them to not use foul language, and that certain subject matter was off-limits for discussion while in the troop setting. We were always fortunate enough that the example we, as adults, set, was one that kept the boys feeling comfortable around each other and us, so that anything that needed to be talked about, could be.

[sctmom]

I have always encouraged my son to tell me any new words he "learned" at school. Then I can explain what those words mean in slang and what they really mean. Also, I can explain why we don't use those words. As early as 3rd grade he was coming home with new words. He says they are written in the bathroom stalls at the elementary school.

 

This did almost backfire on me on time. I found a paper he had written for school. It looked like a list of "rules". Things like don't run in the hallway, be quiet at lunch. Also included a few sentences of "don't say ----". I happened to have a meeting with the teacher the next day. I asked her what that was about. She said the assignment was to write down things about how to behave on a job interview (this was 3rd grade). Just so happens she had a talk with them that same week about bad language. Luckily the teachers understood his personality. He was right -- if you said those things in a job interview, you would probably NOT get the job! LOL When I asked him about the words, he said he put periods in between the letters, so he didn't REALLY use the words.

 

I have already started some talking with him about a year ago, including some of the slang terms so he knows what is going on around him. I found what I felt is a good book about the topic that is aimed at kids his age. The book is kept in his room, to look at any time he wants. So far he will ask me some question. He doesn't feel comfortable asking his dad about ANYTHING. I need to also make sure he knows he can talk to his grandfather he is close to (letting the grandfather know this in advance).

 

I've been around the troop enough to know the adults do not tolerate cussing, bullying and certain subjects. If they hear cussing, they pull the boy aside and put an end to it. The boys I've heard doing it are the ones who are trying to be tough and act grown up. I remember the same from when I was a kid, it's not just a boy thing to do.

 

Soon, many of these young boys will be going to summer camp for the first time. They are going to hear things they may have never heard. I guess I need to talk more to my son about how to stop such without sounding like a little cry baby that. If a kid acts shocked by the language and hurt by it, the others will just feed off that. The difference being, as OGE says, to be brave, handle it calmly and tell an adult in a "mature" way --- not whining or hurt, but state the facts. Let the adults then handle it.

 

Jmc, I do like the fact you let the new parents know they need to have "the talk" with the boys. I know some parents (especially Moms) that put this talk off, hoping to keep their boys as babies as long as possible.

 

[KL Wisconsin]

Some excellent comments have been posted here and in the thread regarding the foul mouthed (rotten) Eagle. Let me just add that Boy Scouts has a good video available that discusses sexual abuse and how to handle situations. I think this video or one like it, should be shown to all the scouts annually. I personally viewed it at a scout meeting where all the parents were told in advance that the video would be shown and were very much encouraged to attend the meeting themselves.

Unfortunately I do not know the name of the video, but one of the scenes showed a group of young boys who are flattered by the attention of an older youth, then enticed by the older boy into nude wrestling, which the older teen was videotaping all under the guise of a special club. One boy "recruit" leaves and tries to tell his father his concerns, but dad only half listens and starts reminiscing about his own fraternity and the fun he had, etc. The boy finally goes to his mother for help. It showed several plausible situations and some of the steps in resolving them.

I hope someone else can tell us the name of that video and if it is viewed in their troop meetings.

 

[Bob White]

Adult Youth Protection Training and the age appropriate youth protect training provided by the BSA are important materials for all adult and youth members of the BSA.

 

One of the things you will learn is that in many states the inappropriate language refered to in this thread and the original one is considered possible sexual abuse if the youth originator is 3 years of age or older than the other youth involved. The BSA requires that such a matter be taken very seriously. At the very least the Council executive should have been informed of the incident. By the way, it is not to late to do that, and I highly recommend you do that.

 

One other thing, it's great to have parents who have an open door policy with their children, and it is great for scouts to know that they can come to their scout leaders to report abuse. But beware of an open door policy inviting scouts to discuss "anything" with their leaders. Leaders are not to dicuss sexual matters with scouts other than reports of abuse. Sex education in scouting begins and ends with the Youth Protection programs and even those have limited or NO discussion depending on the age of the scout. The BSA requires that any leader approached by a scout with a question of a sexual nature be directed to a parent, guardian or religious leader. Sex education is not a program element of the BSA.

 

KL Wisconsin, The tape program for scouts age 11 to 14 is "A Time to Tell", the tape for Cubs age 7 to 10 is "It Could Happen to You" and for scouts 15 to 20 "Youth Protection, Personal Safety Awareness".

 

Bob White

[ozemu]

Bob White, Do you people have mandatory reporting laws? ie no client privelage exists and any knowledge of child abuse must be reported to the police. There is no room for judgement on this one over here. Reporting to your council is not an option at all in Aus.

 

Just curious to know how we compare.

[Quixote]

Bob White,

 

Family Life Merit Badge

Requirement #6

 

Do the following:

A. Discuss with your merit badge counselor how to plan and carry out a family council.

 

B. After this discussion, plan and carry out a family council to include the following subjects:

1.How to avoid the use of drugs and drug abuse

2.Understand the growing-up process, how the body changes, and making responsible decisions dealing with sex

3.Personal and family finances

 

Given requirement 6b2, how does the merit badge counselor ensure that the scout "understands" things without actually discussing or in some other way communicating with the scout?

 

I readily agree that scouting is not about sex ed. but how does this fit in with your statement any leader approached by a scout with a question of a sexual nature be directed to a parent, guardian or religious leader?

[jmcquillan]

Quixote

 

Understanding that you directed your question to Bob White, let me take a stab at explanation from my point of view...

 

Part A requires that the Scout discuss the "how to" part of planning and carrying out a family discussion. No discussion of sex with the counselor is necessary.

 

Part B requires that the Scout actually plan and carry out that family discussion, as a family exercise, without the counselor attending. I would suppose that any feedback and reporting between the Scout and the counselor, after the fact, would be an area where the counselor would ask how things went, but not delve into details about the discussion, for obvious reasons.

 

[Quixote]

Thanks - i had misread the requirement.

[Bob White]

Ozemu,

An excellent question. It varies depending on the State you live in. In Illinois, scout leaders are legally required to report all suspicion of child abuse to the appropriate government agency. In Illinois that is the Department of Children and Familiy Services (DCFS) at 1-800-252-2873.

 

In all 50 states and in our overseas councils of the BSA, leaders are required to report all suspicions of child abuse to the Council Executive or their specified agent. Not reporting places thenm in violation of the Youth Protection Policy. A leader could not only have their membership revoked but could face criminal and civil charges for not reporting.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[sctmom]

I realized there are some ways to tie this into the Scout Oath and Law

 

"morally straight" -- we don't use this type of language or talk about others in this way.

 

"A Scout is clean" - in words as well as body

 

"A Scout is friendly, courteous, kind" - we don't talk about others this way. Using any cuss words is normally not seen as courteous, friendly or kind.