Tiger advancement - what do you think??

[JeffD]

I am a new tiger den leader and have a pretty darn group of families(20 in all) - and we are coming up on the 3rd den meeting (tomorrow) for our tigers. I had set up a message forum for our dens to report advancement so electives/belt loops/etc can be reported and i can take care of some paperwork ahead of time.

 

One of our Akelas just sent me a note that in this time 15 belt loops have been completed as well as 38 elective items (elective 14 was done 22 times). His boy missed the first den meeting and showed up to the second.

 

one of the belt loops (physical fitness) requires the increased performance in each of 5 different skills over a month.

 

I am all for advancement - but does this seem off to anyone else? It seems to me at this rate we will have a bored kid come January because he has 'done it all'.

 

 

[Beagle Scout]

Tiger electives were discussed awhile back in this thread:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=127226

 

In my post in that thread, I commented that when my older son was in Tigers, the other leader and I decided that since there are 100 tiger paws in the back of the Tiger book, we would allow each elective twice. Our hope was to encourage the boys to try different things. Otherwise, my son could have signed off the reading elective every night! As it turned out, the most yellow beads earned by a boy was five or six, which seems reasonable to me.

 

[JeffD]

thanks - i read through that thread. I guess i was wondering about a boy getting bobcat - tiger totem - 4 elective beads - 15 belt loops at the first pack meeting. i would rather know that the kids achieved something when they ear it instead of becoming (bad pun) paper tigers

 

our schools are the same as the other thread where the boys need to read a story every night. if the kids did no other electives, they would get around 2 beads per month just because of elective #14 - reading fun.

 

[Oak Tree]

I wish the policy was that each elective could only be done once. The same for belt loops. Our pack only counts them once and provides them once, anyway.

 

As for the parent who reports a ton of achievements, we've had to deal with that, too. It got so that other parents would just roll their eyes. But because the parent is the official approver of the awards, you pretty much have to take their word for it. One thing that we did was to say that extraordinary claims required additional discussion, because we wanted to be able to tell any parents that asked that we'd looked into it. So we'd actually go over the requirements and ask them when they'd completed them, and what they did for them. We did have some boys who would get on a kick and want to work on a bunch - and it was great to reward those. But I agree with you - 15 belt loops in one month by a Tiger is not likely to be correct. Especially if one is impossible. I'd sit down and have a conversation with the parent.

 

By the way, 20 families is awfully big. Our pack would split that into 3 dens. But I'd recommend two dens at a minimum.

 

Oak Tree

[JeffD]

one month might be okay - but we have had 2 meetings - and he missed the first one.

[WVCubDad]

Hi Jeff,

 

I'm also a new Tiger Den Leader. We had our first den meeting last Tuesday. We'll have our second den meeting next week, tonight was a recruiting drive instead of a meeting, so I haven't had to deal with a huge amount of sign-offs yet.

 

Was this boy active over the summer in working on some of the achievements/electives? Does he have an older brother who clued him in on the belt loops program?

 

I have two boys (including my son) who did some work over the summer on their requirements and will be eligible to recieve their Tiger Paw and some beads at our Pack meeting in two weeks. A third has an older brother WB1 that has been active since he was a Tiger and he's aware of some of the other program elements.

 

We'll see what next week brings. I know it's at least two more Tigers for my den!

 

Let us know how it works out.

 

John

[JeffD]

John - i may be incorrect, but with tigers, theyre just beginning scouting and all of these boys joined up last month. i dont think you can count items done in the past when they werent even scouts (though i would love it as our family is pretty active). now over this next summer - i agree this would be no problems.

 

for me - the electives arent so much of the issue as the belt loops are. here they all are - Art, Astronomy, Baseball, Bicycling, Bowling, Computers, Fishing, Golf, Gymnastics, Mathematics, Music, Physical Fitness, Science, Soccer, and Swimming.

 

I am going to talk to our cubmaster tomorrow - but i really appreciate any opinions from everyone else...

[WVCubDad]

Jeff,

 

My son and I joined in May and participated in the Pack acitivities over the summer. Since it appeared in the literature that the Cub Scout year starts in June, after I agreed to be the den leader I told the incoming Tiger teams to go ahead and start to work on their requirements since we wouldn't have any den meetings until September 5th.

 

I focused mainly on getting the Bobcat stuff done with my son since that was a change to the Tiger program and I remembered having to work hard on it when I was a Cub. We did do a couple of the electives - help in the kitchen, go to work, and we could count a couple family and go see it items as well.

 

I would agree that a Tiger who just joined last month probably shouldn't be able to count stuff he did in June and July towards belt loops and achievements. I thought maybe you had some really well clued in parents, but maybe they're reliving their childhood through their boy.

 

I think Oak Tree has a good approach to the problem. It could definitely be an issue down the line, best to nip it in the bud now.

 

John

[OneHour]

I just laid out my youngest son's Tiger den schedule for the year. The first month, we'd work on our Bob Cat requirements. Each of the next 5 months is dedicated to 1 Tiger requirement. I'd have them do 15-20 minutes on the "den" portion of the requirements. The rest of the den meeting, we play, sing, and play some more! One den meeting is dedicated to "go and see it." Each tiger is responsible to do the family portion at home. As for the last three months: I would pick out several of the electives for them to work on. The very last den meeting, we have a party! This worked for my two older sons' dens when they were tigers. It doesn't bore them. Sometimes, we get do a go and see it just for fun! For example, Home Depot or Lowes has a Saturday craft deal that my boys love it. Mixing these den meetings in with a fantastic/fun Pack meeting and Pack event for each month, our tigers are kept very busy. As in any rank, concentrating most on advance will bore the boys! They sat in their classroom for 8 hours. They don't want to be lectured again at night. My suggestion is to mix in there a lot of games, songs, and silliness! Good luck and welcome to cubscout!

 

1Hour

[Lisabob]

Jeff,

 

I guess I'd have a friendly conversation with this parent. It could well be that the boy really has done all of these things in the past. But one of the major points of cubbing is to give families a structure within which to do things together. It is not about getting as many awards as one can. It is about experiences. By expecting that his boy will "get" all of these awards right off the bat, based on things he has done prior to joining cub scouts, the parent is effectively cheating himself and his son out of that shared experience. (I'm not sure I'd use the word "cheating" right off the bat w/ the parent - but that's what it comes down to in the end.)

 

Try to get this guy re-focused on the purpose of the program rather than the tangible awards now, and you - he - and his son will all have a more enjoyable time going forward.

 

Good luck.

 

Lisa'bob

[ScoutNut]

Taking a look at the Loops, both Physical Fitness & Math need 3-4 weeks to complete. Some of the Loops are definately over the head of a new 1 st grader too. Also, in order to have finished so many Loops (which are uaually done at home so the number of den meetings he has attended does not matter), he & his Partner would have to have been off & running to different events each & every night.

 

It sounds to me more like the parents are confused, "fudgeing" things & possibly using activities the boy has been involved in over the past year or 2.

 

Their Den Leader (does each den have it's own leader(s) or are you the leader for all 3?) should have a little talk with the boys folks ASAP & explain how the program works. Requirements should be followed & only those activities done AFTER the boy was a registered Tiger can count.

 

They should be reminded that the boy will be a Cub Scout for 4.5 years & there is no need to do everything in the first 2 weeks!

 

BTW - Elective Beads (or Arrow Points) CAN NOT be awarded until AFTER the Cub has earned his RANK AWARD. This means that at the same Pack meeting your boys receive their TIGER Rank Award they will also receive any Elective Beads they have earned to that point. Check out your Tiger Handbook.

[JeffD]

i am the actual den leader for this boy (i have 7 in my den)

 

i also wonder about how well a 1st grader could complete some of the reqs.. for example astronomy. my son can do the first couple of requirements fairly well - he also goes out to observe with my telescopes and can pick out planets (or be pretty darn close) with the naked eye. but i dont think he could describe the differences between a red giant or a white dwarf. (part of the 3rd requirement)

 

also - thanks for the heads up on elective beads. i just re-read that part.

 

just a couple of hours until the meeting - looks like we will be getting together with everyone to go over this beforehand.

[JeffD]

i had a talk with the father at the meeting and i am quite surprised.

 

it seemed he didnt really even look at the requirements for the belt loops and signed off on the ones that he had done in school. so - have art class at school - sign off on art belt loop. take baseball last year - sign off on that belt loop, etc...

[ScoutNut]

ROFL!!

 

Surprised? Not me! I see this attitude WAY to often. I had someone at work tell me once that they never read past the 1st page of a memo & if it has a staple in it they will usually just toss it with only a cursory glance!

 

 

[linuxhack]

Just curious as a new Tiger Den Leader myself... How would the parent know the requirements for the belt loops?

 

I guess in this case maybe he didn't ;-) , but in general. Were the requirements provided to the parents? Would the parent buy the manual from the scout store?

 

Thanks

--Kris