What is winter camping?

[theysawyoucomin']

If you sleep in a fully enclosed heated building and are exposed to the elements only during waking hours, is this really winter camping?

Or really just playing outside?

 

 

We call it a "freezeout" to give the kids "braggin' rights", but I know we had better shelter than some full time occupied American homes. At no time did a ranger or any full time Scouting personnel tell me I couldn't rent the heated lodge for the Cubs and stay there. At the bear level each kid had a parent.

 

What do you think?

 

[John-in-KC]

Speaking for ME...

 

First, if the Council issued a Tour Permit for it, and the TP app was honest about what you were going to do, then in your Council all was according to Hoyle!

 

Second, if the young men had chances to warm up, change wet socks, (or soaked clothing), and get warm soups and drinks down their gullets, then they were being well taken care of. They might even be better off under all the supervision you had than had they simply sledded down the hill behind their houses!

 

That the 1:1 ratio of cubs/parents was honored is a good thing ...

 

Overall, I would not call it camping. OTOH, we just had a thread about cabin overnights in the OA thread. I don't call time in a cabin truly camping!

 

YIS

[Eamonn]

Winter Camping is what ever your Council Camping Committee decides it is.

If you are in Florida, the standard is going to be different than if you are in Montana.

All Cub Scout camp grounds have to be approved by the Camping Committee. If they say the site with the cabin and the cabin is OK. It's OK -if they don't you need to bring it up at the next District Committee meeting.

Eamonn

[CalicoPenn]

The CP definition of winter camping starts out simple:

 

1) Winter camping is camping done in tents in the winter (either meteorological winter - December through February, or seasonal winter - December 21 through March 20).

 

The I add the next layers of definition:

 

2) Camping done during the time of year when normal weather conditions will likely bring temperatures below 45 degrees throughout the day and night (allow me to clarify - you can have temps in the 30's at night in May but temps in the 60's during the day - that's called spring and fall), and/or in conditions where campers may encounter snow and ice (I consider camping in snow in the mountains of Colorado, etc. in the spring when temps are above 45 to be a subset of winter camping - you still need all the skills of winter camping, even though it may be the end of April)

 

3) Camping requiring additional or modified skills and equipment to handle cold-related weather issues.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Calico

[FScouter]

A den of Bears is not permitted to camp as a den at any time in any council, any season.

[scoutldr]

Sleeping in a heated building is called a "sleepover", not "camping". At least in MY book.

 

And fscouter is correct...Cub Scouts are only approved for "family camping". I define that as a group of families all camping at the same location. They just happen to all be members of the same Pack.

[theysawyoucomin']

FScouter,

I would politely argue that family camping is allowed by a cub den. Also, that family camping is defined in the BALOO course book as camping that involves two or more members of the same family on a camping trip. Two being son and Dad, or our council exec has allowed an uncle(a real uncle, mother's brother) with written permission from the Mom

Do you have something that is contrary to that?

 

Please let me know because our pack does this routinely and also does pack camping once a year.

[SR540Beaver]

From the G2SS.

 

Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America.

 

Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping.

 

Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts may participate in a resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camping School-trained leadership and managed by the council.

 

A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

 

[Trevorum]

Winter camping is when you gotta wear a long sleeve T-shirt under your field uniform. (In Texas.)

[funscout]

Maybe the GTSS should say "cold weather camping" instead of winter camping. This would allow cubs in Hawaii to camp during "winter" months, but not Minnesota cubs. Of course, there would need to be guidelines as to what temperature would be the cut-off for warm vs. cold weather camping. And then we'd have to take windchill into account.... Maybe we should just rely on our own common sense after all?!

[FScouter]

As quoted by SR540beaver from the Guide to Safe Scouting: "Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America."

 

One could define a "den" as being composed of the boy members, the Den Leader, and the assistant Den Leader. That group clearly is not permitted to camp.

 

Does adding dads in addition to the den make it "family camping"? Maybe. If mom, dad, brother, and sisters come too, as well as other pack members outside of the bear den, then clearly it would be family camping and not den camping.

 

So I guess what you have to do is ask yourself Are we planning camping for the family, or is our Bear den going camping and we need a loophole?

[theysawyoucomin']

I never thought of the parent rule being a loophole, more of a youth protection issue. I figured if a parent was there the scout would be looked after much more than if there was only two leaders. Having a parent for a camping trip as a youngster is near enough like having a valet to wait on you hand and foot, to facilitate your next want or desire. Which we all know for an 8 year old is every 2 1/2 minutes.

 

I don't see how one to one can be construed as a loophole. JMHO

[ScoutNut]

No, you are right, it is NOT a loophole, it is a downright manipulation of the rules to suit what you want to do.

 

BALOO is for PACK camping. Cub Scouts can camp as a PACK - or at a COUNCIL organized camping event (Family Camp, Day Camp, Resident Camp, Parent/Pal, etc).

 

WEBELOS are the ONLY den that can camp as a DEN.

 

ALL Cubs Scouts, including Webelos, should be camping WITH at least ONE PARENT. Exceptions can be made, if neccessary, with a parent giving another adult permission to be in charge of their son, but it is NOT optimal. Cubs is all about FAMILY.

 

Calling your DEN camping trip a Pack family camping trip simply because there are family members present & they are members of the Pack is wrong.

 

You might call it rulemongering, but this is a a rule that BSA is VERY, VERY clear on.