Joint Webelos-Troop campouts: when to start?

[fgoodwin]

I find conflicting (or at best, "inconsistent") guidance on the National BSA website regarding when Webelos dens may camp with a Boy Scout Troop. Under "Cub Scout Highlights: Outdoor Program Highlights":Joint Webelos den-troop campouts are encouraged for dens of fifth-grade Webelos Scouts with their parents to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. These joint campouts should not be at Boy Scout-based events such as camporees. Webelos dens are encouraged to have several overnighters a year.

 

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-513/01.htmlIs this a limitation to fifth grade Webelos dens, meaning fourth grade Webelos dens should NOT camp with a troop?

 

Under the G2SS, III "Camping":Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

 

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss03.html#aThere is no such limitation. BUT, see Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines, 2006:Webelos dens are encouraged to partcipate in joint den-troop campouts, particularly in the fifth-grade year. These campouts should be conducted with an individual troop for the purpose of strengthening ties between the pack and the troop. BSA health and safety, age-appropriate guidelines for Cub Scout activities, and Youth Protection guidelines apply. When camping with a troop, Cub Scout guidelines still apply for all Cub Scout members.

 

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-361/index.html"Particularly" in the fifth grade year, but w/o limiting joint campouts to fifth-graders.

 

So, which is it?

 

Whenever I teach WLOT / OLS-WL or the Webelso position-specific course, I always make it a point to remind WDLs to take their dens camping with a troop, even if the boys are in a 4th grade Webelos den, in addition to camping as a den w/o a troop.

 

Now I'm not so sure I'm teaching the right thing.

 

Fred Goodwin

Keystone District Training Chairman

[gwd-scouter]

I would follow the G2SS which says nothing about the grade of the Webelos Den. F

 

rom my own experience, however, 5th grade Webs II are usually more experienced and have a better time interacting with Troop members when camping. The 4th grade Webs I are still learning how to do just about anything for themselves and it can be a bit overwhelming to be in a group of older more experienced Boy Scouts. Not much fun for the Boy Scouts either!

 

So, while I wouldn't say that 4th graders CAN'T join a Troop campout, I would suggest that the Webs I concentrate on learning some skills on their own den and pack campouts and then let them look forward to camping with the Boy Scouts in the 5th grade year.

 

 

[MaScout]

Our Troop invites 1st year Webelos to join us on one campout, and it is structured carefully: close to home, simple activities, usually Webelos stay only one night, not two, etc. Then 2nd year Webelos have multiple opportunities to join the troop as appropriate. The 1st yrs like it because they DO get to go camping with "the big boys". The 2nd yrs like it because they get to do quite a bit more, so it's something to look forward to, and they don't have "the little guys" with them all the time.

[LongHaul]

Webelos Camp! Webelos I and Webelos II. I also teach WLS and OLSWL and teach that camping with a troop should begin with the Webelos I program. I encourage the Webelos Leaders to camp with more than one troop over the course of the Webelos I program so the boys can see the difference in troop programs available to them. I know many troops feel that a Webelos Den is their "feeder" den and all the boys should be graduated into their troop but this is supposed to be about the boys not the units. Allowing the boy to find the program he likes and will stay with IMO is the important thing. In the Webelos II program you would concentrate joint activities with the troop most of the den wants to cross into. Camping with different troops and having more than one campout under their belt helps the boys to transition smoothly. As MsScout points out the campout should be geared to or for the Webelos Scouts and not an event where the Webelos are either doing Boy Scout level activities or are just spectators without a program for them. Dont rush the Webelos but dont wait till its crunch time.

LongHaul

 

[Lisabob]

If you were to wait until 5th grade you'd be cutting things pretty close. Around here most packs and troops shut down (or at least, scale way back) for the summer and they're not fully functional again until at least late September. And then it is usually snowing by mid November. So if we waited until 5th grade we'd only have 1 or 2 chances to do any joint camping before cross over rolls around in Feb/March.

 

Our troop conducts one specific webelos campout each year in Oct. and that's kind of a mad house because both 4th and 5th graders from several packs usually attend. They're open to having smaller groups of webelos join them at other times if asked too though - both 4th and 5th graders.

 

Lisa'bob

[EagleInKY]

We find it challenging to find a good activity for Web Is to participate. I'd like to get them out to at least one activity in the Spring of their Web 1 year. This could be a camp visit, a day hike or a simple overnighter close to home. We try to get the Web IIs camping as often as possible once their school year starts.

[ccjj]

We have a troop in our area, who doesn't want anything to with the Webelos until January of their second year. Then, they expect the boys to join their troop because they come from their feeder pack. Now, we have 2 other troops in the same area, who do things with the pack all the time. They invite the Webelos (1 and 2) camping, they offer boys as den chiefs, they interact with the pack.

Now, if you were a boy, which troop would you be interested in?

I personally think that troops should start getting to know the boys early in their Scouting careers. That gives the boys exposure to different troops and styles.

Just my opinion.

 

ccjj

[LongHaul]

ccjj,

As Webelos Transition Coordinator I find that mind set more than I'd like. Waiting until the end of the Webelos II year to introduce the Den to the Troop is not "transitioning". The environment you describe is one of the leading factors for boys dropping out of Scouting in the first year. One they are not being made to feel that the Troop really wants them and is anticipating their joining. Two they are not being made to feel that they, the Webelos Den, have made a place for themselves in this troop. Three the New Scouts are not seen as recruits but as draftees. The Troop does not feel they must attract new scouts but that the Troop is entitled to these New Scouts which sets a tone with the existing members of the troop, in many cases. If I were the WDL I'd go with the Troop that sent me the Den Chiefs (positive leadership training) and the Troop that was willing to interact with my Den over the 20 months of the Webelos Program.

LongHaul

 

[funscout]

Our Council encourages Webelos to attend Fall Camporee with a troop. Saturday morning is specifically set up for Webelos to work on acivity badges. The Webelos then choose to participate as dens, or tag along with the Boy scouts in the afternoon activities. This is often the ONLY camp-out that our Webelos bother to go to. I encouraged my 1st year Webelos to attend Camporee this Fall, because I knew that some of them would be in football next Fall, and wouldn't be able to go. My son was the only one of our 12 boys that went to Camporee (along with four Webelos II scouts.) I'm worried that the rest of my Webelos will have a hard time fitting in a troop camp-out between now and next March, because I know how everyone's summer fills up so quickly.

 

The troop that our Pack traditionally feeds into, has been very accommodating and inviting. The last couple of years we've also gotten cubs from other Packs, because the other troop in town hasn't been inviting them on any camp-outs. We've gotten some new scouts from other Packs, who NEVER camped at all as Webelos.

 

I took my older son to Camporee as a 4th and 5th grader, and my husband camped with him at Klondike in 5th grade. Our current 4th grader has been to Camporee and he wants to camp with the troop at Klondike next year. I haven't seen a problem with the 4th graders being at troop camp-outs since a parent has to be with them. The Boy Scouts have been very helpful and also haven't had a problem with the 9 and 10 year olds that tag along.

[gwd-scouter]

I'm going to chime in here again. It is wonderful that so many of you have had good experience with your Webelos and Boy Scout Troops.

 

When I posted earlier I said "from my experience" the 4th graders were not ready. I was a Webelos Den Leader years ago and the Troop that had the same CO as our Pack just expected the Webs to crossover to them. I didn't know there was any other way to do it, so I tried to set up dates for joint campouts. The Troop did not want the Webelos along until the fall of their 5th grade year. Then, the Webs were not given a program planned more toward them but were expected to just jump in to the patrols and act like the rest of the older Boy Scouts.

 

Not a very fun experience for the Webs. It pretty much has always been that way between that Troop and Pack.

 

I am now SM of a small Troop and trying hard to increase our numbers. Have worked this past year helping a Cub Pack get on its feet and just last week we were happy to take 2 Web IIs on their first camping trip EVER! Yes, way too late I know, but there were Den Leader issues involved (to be posted in another thread later).

 

I will continue working to build a good relationship between our Troop and the Pack and hopefully when the Pack starts up again at the end of summer we will be able to supply them with a couple of Den Chiefs and get any Webs they have camping earlier with us.