Finishing up rank requirements before graduating

[mbscoutmom]

We have one den where the den leader hasn't been keeping track of the boys' progress and getting their awards. Last week I learned that the den leader quit. The CM, whose son is in the den, decided to take over as den leader and make sure all the boys earn their rank next month at our last pack meeting.

 

At tonight's den meeting, he's going to assess what the boys need. I'm going to the meeting to find out for myself what the situation is. I know that half of them have not even received their Bobcat. If some of them need more than three weeks to complete their requirements, how long can we delay their graduation? Do they have to finish by the time school's out, or could we go into the Summer to let them finish?

[Newbie Den Leader]

I don't know BSA policy on this, but in our Council, June 1st is considered the crossover date. After June 1, the boys move up to the next den.

 

Good Luck. Keep in mind that the boys can still earn an Arrow of Light without a Wolf or Bear badge. The Bobcat is always needed.

[msnowman]

I don't know if it varies by Council or not, but here we are allowed to let the boys continue working on rank during the summer, though that is not encouraged.

 

As has been said, other than Bobcat, moving on is not dependent on earning the previous rank (Webelos/AoL aside). One thing to keep in mind is that most of the work for Wolf & Bear can be done at home. If they have been in Cub Scouts since September, their parents can go back thru their books and mark things they have done since then. They may be closer than it would initially appear. Sometimes its the parents that need a boot in the pants to get the boys rank done.

 

Good Luck

YiS

Michelle

[LongHaul]

mbscoutmom,

Technically, I said technically, the boys "graduate" when they complete their school grade or have a birthday. Wolves are in second grade or 8 years old. Technically once they complete second grade or turn 9 they become Bears, rank achievement not withstanding. There is stipulation for Webelos who want to remain in the pack past completion of fifth grade, I hope that is not the case here.

If you allow the Boys to work on rank over the summer when will it be awarded and how? Will you be creating a precedent for future dens who want to graduate at the end of summer instead if the beginning? Can some boys graduate and some boys stay "in grade" what becomes the call here? If this is a tiger den and boy and parent were not familiar with the program I'd have sympathy but if these boys are familiar with the advancement program and are 10 months into this rank "phase" and have not pursued advancement what is the purpose of "fast tracking" them now?

LongHaul

 

[MaScout]

Although I can't quote nor cite right now, I believe it is national policy that a boy can complete requirements for any previous badge until they earn the current badge. Which means: The boys can "graduate" into the Webelos den, but have until they earn the Webelos rank to complete the Bear rank requirements. They need to complete the Bobcat requirements first, obviously. But they could theoretically earn both their Wolf AND Bear ranks before they receive their Webelos badge.

[cubbingcarol]

MaScout, the following was copied from this website http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ca

 

'In the Cub Scout program, all boys in a den work toward the same badge.'

 

So the boys in a Webelos den would only work on the Webelos badge.

But, in the Leader's Book on page 18-4 it states...

"If a boy is close to earning a badge of rank when the school year ends, he may be allowed a few extra weeks to finish before going on to the next rank."

 

Carol

[Lisabob]

Since the boys are mentioned as not all having their bobcat yet, I'm guessing we're not dealing with graduating 5th graders. Assuming we're talking about Wolves or Bears, this should not be too difficult to catch up. If we're talking about Webelos I, well remember that they only need 3 activity pins (Fitness, Citizen, and one more from a different activity group) plus a few other fairly basic requirements. So webelos might take a little more work but even there, if the boys and parents are willing, it could be done. (Regardless of their rank, I assume that they've at least done SOME Of the work during the year, even if they don't have the records signed off at this point.)

 

MaScout, this might be an interpretation thing. My understanding was always that once the boys "graduated" to the next den-rank, they could no longer work on previous ranks. So a boy who graduates from the wolf to bear den could start working on the bear badge immediately, but could not get credit for any further wolf achievements or arrow points.

 

We've traditionally set a pack graduation date and expected people to stick to it (usually a week or so after the end of school). Our main reason was so that activities completed at day camp or resident camp can be counted toward the next rank. Since the camp programs were geared toward the next rank anyway (in terms of how boys were registered and what activities they did), it worked out for us. Your situation might be different, but if the boys are going to day or resident camp, that's something to look into as well.

 

Good luck! And let us know how it works out.

 

Lisa'bob

[Cubmaster-Fred]

As Carol has stated the boy may be granted a few extra weeks to complete his work. Once he begins work on the next level there is no going back.

 

Also once they become Webelos there is no reason to rush, they can complete the Webelos badge even if they are in 5th grade. They just must earn it before the Arrow of Light.

 

Fred

 

JMHO but if all they need is to complete a few requirements, give them a few weeks to finish.

[mbscoutmom]

Thanks. I was hoping I could give them a little extra time to finish, if they need it. Most have just a few requirements left to do. A couple of boys who started late and missed a lot of meetings may not be able to get their Wolf, but at least they'll get their Bobcat.

[ScoutNut]

Keep in mind that Cubs are not allowed to work in more than one level at a time.

 

That means that while they are finishing up their Wolf rank award, they may not work on any Bear requirements.

 

Also, as has been mentioned, get the parents actively involved. They can (& should) be working with their son at home on the missing requirements. It does NOT have to all be done in den meetings.

 

[LongHaul]

Just a FYI type thing, Lisabob says that "I'm guessing we're not dealing with graduating 5th graders" Isn't it ironic that if we were talking about graduating fifth graders we could allow them an additional 6 months past their 11th birthday or graduation from 5th grade, which ever is later, to remain in the Pack and complete requirements before graduating into Boy Scouts, but from Wolf to Bear we are talking weeks.

LongHaul

[John-in-KC]

Two comments:

 

Talking with my friend who is on our District Training Committee as a Cub trainer, and who is also on Cub RT staff, the cutoff is the academic elevation by the school to the next grade. No more ninth birthday. That's his reading of CS requirements and policy.

 

That said, he also made one other comment: "As long as the date on the advancement report for Wolf is before the date for Bear, who is going to care down at the Registrar's office?"

 

 

[Lisabob]

John,

 

The only two times I've seen the birthday thing come into play in cub scouts are

 

1) when a boy is held back a grade but wants to stay with his den and not "repeat" a year of cubbing too (in which case, under the requirement as written, his birthday, not school grade become relevant)

 

and

 

2) Looking at cross-over, we had a boy a couple of years ago who had skipped two grades in elem. school and was still 9 years old when he earned his AoL in Feb. of his 5th grade year. The revised (May 2004) troop joining requirements stipulate that the boy be at least 10 even if he has his AoL award.

 

Otherwise, yup, we go by grade most of the time - makes the whole process a little easier.

 

Lisa'bob

[LongHaul]

` As Lisabob has said there can be an issue if a boy is held back or double promoted in school. My youngest was double promoted twice, get's it from his mother I guess, but we kept him with his age group in Cubs. He was academically gifted but maturity wise he was challenged. He was kind of a Baby Huey with brains. I talked with our DE and his superior about this and as long as he was not past 11 years 6 months he could still be in Cubs no matter what his grade in school. I don't know if this is written anywhere but that's how we did it. There was a question with another scout that had been held back because of behavior disorders and he was not allowed to become a Webelos 2 because he had turned 11 1/2 and had to go into a troop. The pack may have wanted to get rid of him and used this excuse but that was what was presented by the DE, at the District Committee Meeting when it was presented.

As John-in-KC says as long as the dates dont conflict I shouldnt be a problem. This is for the boys, what ever is in their best interest should be what we try to make fly. Whos going to protest a decision to allow the boys to finish the rank requirements?

LongHaul

 

[funscout]

I have a question about Arrow points. Can a boy still earn Wolf arrow points when he is a third grader in a Bear Den, and is concurrently working on the Bear rank? A few years ago, when I was Advancement Coordinator, our CM had me get his 3rd grader a couple silver arrow points for Wolf that he had worked on over the summer. This boy had been to Day Camp, where he worked on Bear requirements and electives. I told him I didn't think that was right, but he insisted, so I got them for him. Does anyone know if that was okay or not?