Webelos and belt loops

[Eagle92]

My responses.

 

#2 Probably the same folks who think Webelos are not Cub Scouts but Jr. Boy Scouts. They are PREPARING to be Boy Scouts, but still wear CS insignia, are part of a den, have a den leader etc.

 

 

#1 Your council is screwy in regards to the April activity. they cannot become Webelos until A) School ends or B) June 1st, whichever happens first. National pu in the arbitrary June 1 date b/c some schools finish before Memorial Day, others not until the middle of June, and still others are now year round.

 

As for working on the next rank now, no can do. that's what electives are for. Belt loops and pins are filler.

 

As for using already earned loops and pins for Webelos and AOL rank, unless the requirements specifically say you cannot use a previously earned loop or pin, I do not see the reason for sandbagging. That would be like a First Class Scout using all Eagle Required MBs to meet the Star requirements, and then having to earn additional eagle required MBs for Life,

 

#3 The Cubs are in their current program, Bear in your son's case, until either School ends, or June 1. I'm willing to cut a little slack though if they start wearing the next level stuff Memorial Day Weekend or therabouts. long story short Most pack in my area have the promotion ceremonies just before Memorial Day as that was when school ended, and we have a major service project that weekend. BUT a few years back the state changed when schools can end, and the kids don't get out until middle of June.

[AnnLaurelB]

Personally? I would have my boys put on their Rank Badge (of course!) but not wear the next Rank's necker until the end of the school year.

 

But that's just me.

 

With regard to the Beltloops for Webs, I understand the confusion. My kid already HAS a herd of BL's. However, several of those he earned as a Tiger. If he has to go through the BL requirements ON THE WAY TO earning the Pin for Webs, I'm okay with that.

 

As someone pointed out upthread, what I might have required for Tigers to earn the "Communication" BL will be vastly different from what I might require of a 4th grade Web for the same BL. It surely won't hurt to go over that stuff again.

 

It'll be a new Den, new Scout year, new Handbook, new Uniform. So I'd say bling him up now with whatever he's earned, then just spend the small amount of time it will take to bang through the BL requirements on the way to the Pins, as he works on his Web Badge.

[momof2cubs]

We have several boys in our pack the joined in 4th grade, so they don't have any beltloops.

 

We award them only once, regardless. If they earn it again during their webelos years when they are working on activity pins, we recognize them, but we don't award them again. They are not restricted items, parents can buy them themselves if they choose to have more than one.

[Tampa Turtle]

In my old Pack we awarded them once. But a lot of boys got them 2 or 3 times. The belt loop requirements for wolf were not always same as webelos. I could be wrong it was a while. Some boys parents tried to earn them earlier when they were easier.

 

A lot of boys repeated when the activities were done in Den meetings.

 

Because of the cost (we had 150 boys) we eventually tried a survey of existing belt loops, informed the parents of the 1 only issue policy, and tried to only award once. However if a boy lost one we might issue a replacement, once.

[DLChris71]

Re: "screwy April activity"

 

Leaders guide: http://www.capefearcouncilbsa.org/images/stories/pdfs/2012%20Camp%20McNeill%20leaders%20guide.pdf

 

I'm not sure why Bears go to Spring Resident camp as Webelos. Maybe because Fall camp offers less Webelos specific activities?

 

Of course maybe it's a typo about Bears going as Webelos. It's not in the leader guide but is on the registration form: http://www.capefearcouncilbsa.org/images/stories/pdfs/2012%20Spring%20Cub%20Camp%20brochure.pdf

 

The bit is in the box "Special Notes" which is under the pack list.

 

Of course it says they will attend as Webelos I and doesn't necessarily say that they will get to take activity badge. So maybe I'm just confused. I guess we'll find out in 3 weeks.

[AnnLaurelB]

The SM said something about this to me when the Camp Cards rolled out. "Oh! Your son can go to Web camp."

 

Uh...maybe he *can*, but he's not going to. And maybe some boys would be ready to, but my kid is young for his grade, and half his pals are still in Wolves (well, new Bears, now). He's going to Day Camp this year; then next summer, between 4th and 5th, he can go to Web Camp.

 

[ScoutNut]

The Webelos program specifically states that any belt loops uses to fulfill Webelos requirements MUST be earned (or re-earned) AS A WEBELOS Cub Scout.

 

That said, the Citizenship belt loop is the only one REQUIRED for any Webelos Activity Pin. All other belt loops are only 1 of multiple options.

 

As for reporting requirements as being done as a Webelos when they were really done earlier, that does not sit well with me. Not presenting a good role model of honesty to your Scout and setting a bad precedent for later. What happens if he decides that camping he did in 2nd grade should be used for his Camping Merit Badge in 7th grade? Why is it OK for this but not for that?

 

 

Some councils seem to have decided they will get more "bang for their buck" if they include "rising" 4th graders in their Spring Webelos camping programs.

[AnnLaurelB]

I think it's a matter of semantics about "re-earned". Sure, sure. They need to actually ~DO~ the Beltloop *requirements* again (because again, what my son did for any BL as a Tiger will be very much different when he's a 4th grader).

 

But I wouldn't bother to BUY him a SECOND BL that he already had. Just DO the stuff for the BL as instructed, and then *keep going* with the additional stuff that the Pin requires.

 

No one needs TWO BL's for any activity, if you ask me. RE-EARN, ~yes~. Re-receive? No. IMHO.

[5yearscouter]

Citizen you must earn the citizenship belt loop.

Sportsman you must earn 2 individual sports and 2 team sports belt loops

Scientist you must earn the science belt loop.

and a couple others you have options to earn belt loops.

 

The first time you earn a belt loop, you get the card and the belt loop.

If anyone re-earns a belt loop we suggest they do more and earn the pin but regardless we give the card but no 2nd belt loop.

We also limit belt loops to 2 a month given in pack meetings[occasionally 3 if they actuall did them in den meetings or specific outings], to slow down the parents who go home and say ok johnny did this this this and he must have done this at school, and we end up with a den giving out 30 belt loops in one month.

 

yes, we had a den with 4 boys in it and each got 30 belt loops at blue and gold a couple years ago. the advancement chair went and got them and packaged them up and then asked what we thought. the parents in that den ended up contributing some cash to pay for some of them cause that virtually depleted their dens awards budget for the whole year and they hadn't gotten their 10 silver arrows yet!

 

[DLChris71]

@Scoutnut:

 

I can see that POV. So the situation is that my son has done requirements 2 and 3 for the weather belt loop, but not 1 (draw a poster demonstrating the water cycle). This he could do realistically in 30 minutes or less.

 

Since it only takes a week of recording weather data to earn the weather belt loop I think we'll just redo the work in June rather than use his March data.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Not to be a wet towel, but a Cub Scout is a BEAR from whenever they got outta 2nd grade last year or June 1, 2011 (whichever is first) until they get outta school this year or June 1 2012.

 

Internet Advancement won't allow you to enter the data for levels they haven't met yet, i.e. you cannot enter Webelos advancement while they are still a Bear. Trust me, we have a Cub listed as a Tiger still, and IA won't let me put in his Wolf Badge. I have to contatc council to do make the changes.

[DLChris71]

I have no doubt that is the case. This being our first year and a lot of contradicting information rolling around we'll just have to smile and participate regardless of the outcome.

[Basementdweller]

Eagle.....their council does not run a Traditional resident camp.......Fish and I had a debate about this last year...... Because of the utilization of their camp they do not have the ability to host webelos over the summer. so they run this event over a weekend and invite Current Bears who will transition to Webelos at the end of school. This creates a ton of confusion for everyone involved, Transition dates, Bears earning Webelos pins...

 

Chris.....the important thing to remember about webelos is this is the transition period from cubs, parents signing advancement, to Boy Scouts, were Youth and Adult leadership in the troop, sign off the Advancement.....

 

The belt loops at this point in the game are pretty ridiculous.

[AnnLaurelB]

BasementD;

 

It may depend on the kid, and when they start in Cubs. My son started as a Tiger, so he's got a remption of Beltloops over 3 years! If our Den plans go right, he's going to earn 3 more BLs before the season is out.

 

I'll have Web1's next season; we'll work on our Web Badge, and they'll rack up some more Beltloops, undoubtedly. And that's fine, since it's *bling*, and they like them. They'll wear them all season.

 

Now, when my son/pals go into Web2, I'm not sure we'll bother a lot with BLs. My main objective will be to lead them through their AOL, hopefully to Bridge by B&G. I agree that BLs at that point would be dumb.

 

HOWEVER, last year I had 2 boys who joined Cubs AS *5th* graders. They didn't have a lot of parent involvement, and while the DL did her best with them, it was all they could do to finish their Web Badge by the end of the school year.

 

In THEIR case, we awarded every BL we could, so that they'd stay motivated and be recognized at Pack meetings along with the younger Cubbies. It worked for them.

[ScoutNut]

5year - While belt loops are required for some Webelos Activity Badges, the only Badge that is required for a Webelos to earn, that requires the earning of a belt loop, is Citizen. All others are optional Badges, or optional requirements.

 

Ann - "No one needs TWO BL's for any activity, if you ask me. RE-EARN, ~yes~. Re-receive? No. IMHO."

 

While I agree with you, that is a call that is entirely up to the Pack. Some Pack's will purchase and award any and all belt loops that a Cub earns, even duplicates. Others draw the line at duplicates. Others will only pay for a specific number of loops per year (does not matter if it is a duplicate from a prior year). Still others make the parents pay for all optional awards, including belt loops.