Chartered Orgaization is Broke

[SpongeBob]

I found out at out last committee meeting, that our chartered organization got into to tax trouble, is broke, and may close. They have not told us this themselves, but our Wolf leader works for the city, and he found it out.

 

I'm not really sure what is going to happen, but has anyone experienced this before?

 

Would it be our repsonsibility as the pack to find a new one?

 

I'd just like to know a head of time how similar situations have been handles in the past, as I do not want this to affect the boys, and I would like the change to be as seamless as possible from their perspective.

[John-in-KC]

HAVE YOUR COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN CALL THE DISTRICT COMMISSIONER and CHAIRMAN TODAY!! DO NOT DELAY THIS CALL!!

 

Your Chartered Partner owns your unit property and the unit Treasury. Depending on your states' laws, these have potential to be sold off to satisfy the Partners' debts. BSA wants to protect those assets for the good of the youth in the program, but they have to know something is wrong before they can take action.

 

I will suggest contacting the local Posts of the Veteran's of Foreign Wars as well as the American Legion. Both have NATIONAL MISSIONS to pick up charters of units who lose their Partner. See if one or the other will support you.

 

At the same time, your Committee Chairman needs to have a hard business talk with the COR. One of his key Scouting jobs is to protect the interests of the unit with the chartered partner.

 

YIS John

A COR of a VFW post

[SpongeBob]

We are chartered by the American Legion, and the VFW has been facing similar financial problems.

 

But that is a good point about our pack finances being used to pay off the COR debts. I went through an unsuccessful bankruptcy with my former employer.

 

I'm going to some training this weekend, and I'll see what I can find out there. The people at the training would be able to help me some more before I go to the chairman. I'm not sure if she'll do anything about it though. Really long story, but I'll just leave it at out pack being very casual, well, except for me that is. We're finally having our first "real" pack meeting this month.

[Lisabob]

SpongeBob,

 

There's something to be said for being proactive. It might not be a bad thing to start thinking about what kinds of groups in your town might be willing to pick up your pack, particularly if the American Legion and VFW aren't in a position to help you. Around here, most packs are chartered either by PTOs or by religious institutions (which does not necessarily mean the packs themselves reflect any particular religious belief - but this depends a bit on the religious institution). Other service clubs (Lions, Elks etc.) have also sponsored units in the past around here.

 

John's right about contacting your district leadership ASAP about this. You may also want to bring this to the attention of the district membership chair who, along with your district's professional staff (District Exec. or Director) have the responsibility of helping faltering units maintain their charters (or find new charter partners) and starting up new units. These people may have insights into who in your area might be able and willing to become a new charter partner for your pack in case things do fall through with your current charter org.

 

I hope training goes well for you. Pack cultures and dynamics can change pretty quickly so although you've described yours as "very casual" it doesn't take a lot to get things up to speed in terms of program - just a few adult leaders who are willing, and that starts out with training, so keep it up.

 

Lisa'bob

[Lynda J]

All assets that the Pack or Troop has belonges to the CO. This can cause big problems in cases like this. As was mentioned before. It the City or County comes in and closes down this CO they could also take all unit property.

I would make sure that you don't leave any personal property of yours or your boys where you meet. I would also get in touch with your DE or someone from your Council. If you are letting the unit use lanterns or any gear take it home, just to be on the safe side. If you are a troop and have any advancement records stored where you meet take them home.

 

If you do find a new CO remember that in most cases you can not keep your unit number. What has happened here when this type of thing has happened the unit moves and adds a 1 to be front of their existing number.

 

GOOD LUCK, but make sure you protect your boys first/.

[SpongeBob]

Thanks for the info. I have contacted our DE. He is good at either getting things done or pointing me in the right direction.

 

We don't meet at the American Legion. We meet at an elementary school. All of our packs belongings (pine car track and flags) are at the cubmaster's house. We don't have any "place" to keep our stuff.

 

I don't know if the CO knows what exactly what we have, and I'm not so sure our Cubmaster does either.

 

The three things that I'm worried about is the money, the flags and the track.

 

I did not have a change to talk to someone over the weekend at training, but I do have a roundtable this week.

 

Thanks for your help!

[John-in-KC]

Your Committee Chair is the right person to have these conversations. If he isn't going to be at RT, he can delegate these NECESSARY conversations to you.

 

You need to get the Key 3 of your District (DE, Dist Commish, Dist Chair) + the Distric Committee Membership Operating COmmittee chairman into that conversation.

 

With the property secured, the next challenge is making sure the money is protected.

[nldscout]

first off no one can seize property that doesn't belong to them, and contray to popular misconception a CO does NOT automatically own the property and funds of a unit.

 

If you can quote me a BSA R&R that says they do, I sure would like to see it. Not even the BSA legal department will tell you that. Been through this discussuion many times.

 

 

[SpongeBob]

I know I should go to the Committee Chair, but to tell you the truth, she knows, and doesn't think it's a big concern. Like I said my pack is very casual, and I have to take on extra responsibility to ensure a good program for my Tigers.

 

We have boys whose uniform shirt only has the American flag on it, and nothing else. One of them is the Cubmaster's son. It makes me cringe when I see him.

 

We are finally, this month, having a "real" pack meeting. Other meeting centered around Holidays, Parades, B&G, and pinewood.

 

So I'm trying to stay right on the line of doing things by the book, and not making the other leaders look so bad that I'd be asked to leave. I have already argued with "them" about filing tour permits, fundraising permits, and advancement reports. Our pack does not file these, except for me, for my Tigers. I have given them multiple copies of memos, and they don't care.

 

There is a lot more that bothers me but it'd be WAY off topic.

 

That's why I talk to the DE when I have problems. He shows me where to go when I need help since the leadership I depend on in my pack in non-existant.

[ScoutNut]

Sponge, it sounds to me like you & your Tigers need to look for a "real" Cub Scout Pack to join!

 

If this Pack's leadership is so casual that they do not recognize boy's on a monthly basis, it will not matter if your CO is broke or not, staying there will not ensure a good program for your Tigers.

 

 

[Newbie Den Leader]

Tell the pack leadership that you want to become the Cubmaster (assuming you can get another CO) and begin transforming the Pack to an excellent scouting program. If that offer offends them, then...

 

Transfer your den to another Pack and let them benefit from your leadership skills.

[SpongeBob]

I know. The current cubmaster wanted me to take over, but I don't know what he's planning on doing, since he's still debating it. I told him I'd do it. I don't know how the others would feel about me wanting them to follow the rules. I do not like it when they do not follow the guide to safe scouting.

 

I make sure that I recognize the boys at each den meeting, and I hold some advancement over to pack meeting, if possible. I end up working twice as hard as I should but it's worth it to see the boys beaming with pride.

 

Some of my Tiger's parents have asked me to stay with the boys next year. I asked my son how he would feel if I became cubmaster. At first, he didn't want me to leave, but I told him that I can still go to the den meetings with him, and I can plan a monthly outing as well. So he's ok with that. Some of the other parents have also asked me to be the cubmaster.

 

The possibility of being cubmaster next year is why I want to find out what I should be doing in case our COR goes broke.

 

If our COR goes broke, and I'm not the cubmaster, I will try to get into another pack. I know a pack in our area that is very active, and I like the cubmaster.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Don't wait until things are a done deal, get trained now so you will have an idea of what is coming.

 

Your council/district are most likely holding leader trainings this month & next. If you have not already, take New Leader Essentials. Then take the Leader Specific for the position you think you will most likely be in (Cubmaster or Wolf Leader) next year. If you can swing it, take the other Specific course also. Training is like money, you can never have to much! It certainly will not be wasted, & it will give you a good base no matter what you end up doing.

 

 

[MarkS]

For best results...

 

The Cubmaster does not run the pack. The Committee Chair does with the help of the Pack Committee.

 

With the help of the Pack Committee, it's up to the Committee Chair to recruit the other adult leaders (including the Cubmaster), ensure they are trained, and are following BSA policies and guidelines.

 

The Cubmaster recruits boys, conducts the Pack Program, and ensures that Den Leaders are providing quality Den Programs.

 

The Committee Chair makes sure the pack is operating properly and Cubmaster makes sure the programs are operating properly. They work together. They are ying and yang.

 

Den Leaders help the Cubmaster put on the Pack Program, run their Den Programs, and collect dues (because they see the boys and parents the most).

 

It doesn't always work this way, but it should.

 

For unit survival...

 

A pack can do a lot of things differently from the way "the book" says. Heck, the Pack Meetings don't even have to be that great. However, if the Den Leaders are not providing a quality program, your membership will suffer. There's nothing you can do in a Pack Meeting to fix that.

 

The Den Leaders are the most important leaders of a Pack. If they are not quality leaders, then the Pack will struggle. It's easier for five strong Den Leaders to assist a Cubmaster who needs help, than for the Cubmaster to assist five Den Leaders that need help.

 

(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Lynda J]

nldscout. The CO Owns the charter for the units. THis means that they own the units. About 3 years ago there was a unit in our Council that lost everything. THeir CO filed bankruptcy and all assets were siezed by the bank. This included troop equiptment that was stored at the facility.

They took the bank account also. The bank account is probably listed with the CO's name first and then the troops.