Lion Scouts is Here!

[ScoutNut]

>>"I felt this way about our tiger den. We had a den leader and an assistant(ME) and we really didn't have a clue as to what we were doing and I think it showed. Having a lion den would have helped us acclimate ourselves to the den leader position.">"Having a Lion program available only lets the boys join IF they want to. It introduces them to scouting and lets them decide if they want to continue."

[prairie]

There are 5 years of Cubbing already and thats at least one too many, Cubs should be a prep for Boy Scouting, seems it's turned into a program to serve itself instead.

[tayl0124]

Scoutnut, I think that if my son would have started in a lion cub program I would not have had the expectations that I had last year. I also think that if I or the other leader would have had one more year experience with the den that we could have done a better job. This will be our packs first year attempting the lion program. But I do believe this is going to be the last year of the Pilot program. We will see how it goes, and how the tiger den next year does.

 

I know that they are not being forced into scouting at any age, but most other extra curricular activities that will capture their time are available in kindergarten or earlier. So why not scouting too? Do you see parents not wanting to sign their children up for sports because they don't want to be their with their children?? Maybe these are not the right parents to be involved with scouting. That being said, I do think that the tiger den could be run without an adult akela if the boys have some level of scouting while in kindergarten. Lets face it, our children do just fine in kindergarten, and first grade without a parent being present.

 

"There are 5 years of Cubbing already and that's at least one too many, Cubs should be a prep for Boy Scouting, seems it's turned into a program to serve itself instead."

 

I don't totally disagree with this, however I see the lion program as kind of like a pre-school for cub scouts. But I would like to see the boys only have 1 year of webelos. therfore having 1 year of introduction to scouts followed with 4 good years.

[meschen]

I'm real curious what the retention rates are for boys based on when they joined - as 2nd graders, 1st graders vs. Kindergardeners. I don't think in the long run Lions will be a good thing - we're going to burn out too many boys in Webelos before we can get them into a Troop if they are in a Pack for 6 years.

 

 

[jsummerlin]

I agree with the burnout comments. Tigers is to early, they should get rid of it before adding another program. My older son was a Tiger and burned out on Scouting at about second class. He is just starting up again after about a year off, but he was really tired of it. Couldn't blame him.

 

With my 7 year old I am not making the same mistake. He is joining cubs this year (2nd grade) as a Wolf, and is excited. I cannot imagine this being his *3rd* year in cubs???

[missysfire]

I created the Mowgli program (a kindergarten program) for the year 08-09. It is run by a trained Akela (me) for the first part of the year and turned over to the parents for the second part. I started with 3 boys and added a fourth in Jan. They met every night that the Pack met (weekly) and joined the Pack in the Pinewood Derby, Raingutter Regatta, Pack meetings and many other activities. Two of the boys attended Daycamp. The parents had time to be YP trained and acclimated to the Cub Scout ways while I was leading the Den. My retention rate: all four boys bridged to Tigers and I had 5 trained adults registered for the following year, including an Asst. Cubmaster. The parents knew from the beginning of the year that one of them would have to be a Tiger Den leader as I would not bridge with them, but would be staying to start the next Mowgli Den. (BTW, we are a tag-along program with our local Pack).

Our Pack has been running a kindergarten program (though not the new Mowgli program) for 5 years and our first boy will be bridging to Boy Scouts this coming spring.

[cubbingcarol]

When will we stop rushing our kids into growing up? There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding out till 1st or 2nd grade to start boys in Scouting. And all this about well we start sports etc. in Kindergarten and 1st grade, so what, those things last 2 or 3 months tops (at a time). Scouting is a year long program. Your darn right kids (and parents) get burned out. And if we are competing with these other programs for a time slot in a busy families life then those that truly value Scouting will make time (as long as the leaders put together a well run program). So come on people and let the little boys just be little boys and not miniture Scouts.

 

Carol

mother and den leader (Webelos I) and assistant troop leader (of Tenderfoot scout)

[Pack212Scouter]

I can see the appeal to BSA of a K program. Probably about 30% of my calls and inquireies each spring are from K parents. Additionally, as has been said here, sports competition is an issue at this age, however I have found that more important than getting them a year earlier is getting them at the same time that school sports are signing up...not after sports signups when the family schedule is established.

 

As for burnout, I see this more as an adult issue than youth. Remember that in the case of siblings, some of them have been attending your Den Meetings and Scouting events since BEFORE kindergarden! Does burnout happen, sure. But this is hardley a reason not to do something since it is so variable. I've seen everything from first year "burnout" to never any "burnout". The real reason that I have seen the burnout excuse is a) boring meetings, b) few interesting activities, c) no active outdoor program. What this all boils down to is a Cub Scout program that has them sit in meetings each time after a school day results in "burnout."

 

Finally, and more importantly to me. With a Pack that already is pushing 170 Scouts with 22 Dens and 50+ Leaders, I really don't want to add the additional time and effort for an additional 20 odd boys and 8 more Leaders. Not to mention that we have already run out of meeting room for the Dens that we do have! LOL(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)

[Lodge 489]

When I was at PTC a few weeks ago we had a presentation about the Kindergarten Cub Scout program. It is called K-Cubs, and based upon the success of the Council that has been testing it for several years, it seems that National will allow it to expand out of beta-test for next year (2010). They never referred to it as Lions and since Lions was a previous Cub Scout rank I doubt if they would bring it back, especially since Lions was about the equivalent of today's Webelos 1 rank.

 

Everyone that heard about the K-Cubs program was supportive of it. It will be a voluntary program just like Tiger Cubs currently is, so if a Pack doesn't want to implement the K-Cubs program they won't have to. As I hear more about it I will update this thread.

[ScoutNut]

>>"It will be a voluntary program just like Tiger Cubs currently is."

[Sephrina]

I know LDS packs don't have Tiger Cubs. They don't start the boys until they are 8

[Lodge 489]

How is Tiger Cubs voluntary?

 

My exact same response when I heard it a few weeks ago. I found out that if the Chartered Org does not want to have a Tiger Cub Den then that is entirely up to them. They told us that well over 30% of the U.S. packs do not have a Tiger Cub Den.

 

While at PTC we attended a presentation on "Scouting and the LDS Church" and found out that it's their church's policy that an LDS pack cannot have a Tiger Cub Den. We were also told that LDS churches are the largest Charter Orgs in the US and as such I'm pretty sure that they largely contribute to the high amount of packs that have no Tiger Cub dens.

 

This has nothing to do with Cub Scouting but it was interesting to learn all about the LDS Scouting structure, especially that the oldest boys that they allow in a Boy Scout Troop is 13 years old. The LDS Scoutmasters said it is extremely tough trying to find a "mature" 13 year old to be the SPL for a Troop. Since Boy Scout Troops are supposed to be "scout led" versus "parent led" like Cub Scouts are it sure presents its challenges

[Eagle92]

Sephrina,

TCs are no longer a 'stand alone" program as they were originally. They are fully integrated into cub scouts now. LDS units still do some things "old school" i.e the old 3 year CS program, and roughly follow the old age 12 requirements for scouts. The 11 yos. if memory serves are registeerd in a troop, but do things separately.

 

Any way, LDS units are not the norm as they fully integrated their youth ministry into scouting, so there are some major differences between normal scouting and LDS scouting.

[ScoutNut]

I suppose using that criteria any level is "voluntary". If a CO came along who did not want to start their Cub Scouts until 2nd or 3rd grade, I am sure they would be able to.

 

LDS does not use the "regular" scouting program. They have adapted it to their own uses, as any CO is allowed to do. Scouting is used as their Young Men's Priesthood Program. Boys move along, at ALL levels, based on their age.

 

LDS boys become official members of their church, and become a Cub Scout, on their 8th birthday. That is why they do not have Tiger dens. Boys under 8 are not yet church members.

 

In all other "regular" Cub Scout Packs, the only reason not to have a Tiger den is if they are simply unable to recruit any in a particular year.

 

[missysfire]

I'm interested in hearing more about the K-Cubs program so I can compare it to the K program our Pack runs. Any contact info for that Pack or Council?