Lion Scouts is Here!

[nldscout]

There are only a few councils that are trying the program and apparently only one has forged ahead with it in a coed form. All the rest including ours is strickly Kindergarten BOYS only.

 

[Newbie Den Leader]

If what I'm reading on this thread represents the Lion program, then I'm not impressed. If it's going to work well, it needs be to be an all Cub Scout program with no mixing of LFL.

 

 

[missysfire]

I am currently running a Mowgli program (still Kindergarten boys). I wrote a complete curriculum based on our local school curriculum, Scout ideals, and the Scout program. I created a uniform and an award system as well. I changed the name to Mowglis in order to stay with the "Jungle Book" theme of Cub Scouting.

Our Pack has been running a Lion program for 4 years and I finally decided that we needed to get serious. We had been using the Tiger program as a basis, but this caused too much overlay when the boys went into the Tiger program.

The Mowgli program includes an adult Akela who runs the program for several months until the parents have acclimated and been trained. By the fourth month, the parents should be comfortable enough to take over the program, with the Akela staying on as a consultant. This is how the program begins at the beginning of every cycle.

I have submitted the prototype of the Mowgli program to our local council for review and will be closely documenting everything we do this year.

 

[jmwalston]

"I am currently running a Mowgli program (still Kindergarten boys). I wrote a complete curriculum based on our local school curriculum, Scout ideals, and the Scout program. I created a uniform and an award system as well. I changed the name to Mowglis in order to stay with the "Jungle Book" theme of Cub Scouting.

Our Pack has been running a Lion program for 4 years and I finally decided that we needed to get serious. We had been using the Tiger program as a basis, but this caused too much overlay when the boys went into the Tiger program.

The Mowgli program includes an adult Akela who runs the program for several months until the parents have acclimated and been trained. By the fourth month, the parents should be comfortable enough to take over the program, with the Akela staying on as a consultant. This is how the program begins at the beginning of every cycle.

I have submitted the prototype of the Mowgli program to our local council for review and will be closely documenting everything we do this year."

 

I'm sort of at a loss. How are you running this through a Pack? The boys are not obviously registered with BSA. Was your Council aware of this program for the last 4 years?

[missysfire]

1) Our local council is (and was) aware and watching.

2) The boys are not registered with BSA. We are considered a tag-a-long program. The parents are aware that BSA does not cover this program and that the boys are not covered by any insurance through BSA. (They are covered under our chartered organization insurance for activities within the organization's property and the parents' private insurance otherwise)

3) We do not participate in any BSA sponsored programs (they are simply too young)

 

[tayl0124]

I just went to our council meeting last Thursday. This is apparently he last year for the pilot program. And our council is a part of the testing. It is $15 for the 2 year membership, it does not include boys life, and you have to provide your own t-shirt. Iron on transfers are supplied though. The boys are not considered part of your pack (roster) until they cross over to tigers(or recharter in March). At the time they become tigers there is some $1 fee that they have to pay. The reason for the scouts doing this as I was told is because there is so many things out there trying to get the attention of young boys. Just think. How many sports can your son be in before they are in 1st grade??? The scouts are covered by insurance we were told, although that may be the charters insurance, however it was not explained that way. The boys can attend pack meetings and it is meant for them to have maybe 1 to 2 den meetings led by the parents. The Lions earn instant recognition beads similar to the tigers before they earn the tiger rank. They CANNOT participate in the pinewood derby or similar events. This is a sore spot in our pack. There is talk about allowing just the lions to have their own races, but it is not endorsed by the BSA. The lions are also not allowed to fund raise. There might be more that I am missing. It is also a plus because you have an established tiger den in the spring. And possibly already have a tiger den leader.

[IM_Kathy]

my son is way past early cub years... but being involved with both cub/boy scouts and girl scouts I am in favor of this. Girl Scouts starts with kindergarten, but the boys have to wait until 1st grade. We had 1 set of mixed twins where they made the girl wait until 1st grade since her brother couldn't join scouts until then. Some one also mentioned how they start many sports at kindergarten age as well - I think starting at 1st grade a parent/boy might think I'm already busy with baseball and basketball, unless scouts is something the parent really wants their son to be involved in.

[evmori]

Too young. They are burning out now with Tigers in place! Add another year & the drop off will be greater.

[prairie]

Agreed, 2nd grade is early enough, both the parents and boys burn out, and this incresses the time Scouters are exposed to a adult lead and driven program, makes it even harder for them to stand back and let Patrols function in Boy Scouts.

[ScoutNut]

>>"It is also a plus because you have an established tiger den in the spring. And possibly already have a tiger den leader."

[Eagle92]

As a TCDL, I have mixed emotions on thsi topic. On one hand I am glad that my son is now old enough to be a CS and can start on some of the adventures i had as a youth. Better yet I can give him som of the opportunties i did not have as a CS like CSDC and overniters.

 

However being involved on the troop and district level for so long, I do see the burn out among youth and adults. A lot of youth view Webelos as the end of the trail, not the beginning that it is. As for adults, It is very, very, hard to convert them form adult run and organized, to youth run and organized. They want to jump in b/c theya have been trained for 5 years to do so.

 

That is why I think WDLs have one of the toughest jobs in scouting: getting the YOUTH to realize that the fun truly begins at the BS level, getting the YOUTH to take more resposnibility, getting the PARENTS to understand that this is a time of transition and the youth need to and CAN step up to the plate (mistakes and all), and THEMSELVES to slowly back away to let the youth do more things and prep them for hte patrol mehtod and the troop.

 

Maybe it's overkill on my part, maybe it's ego, but I have talked to CS and their parents already about the differences between the CS and BS programs, how the adventure truly begins at the BS level, and how the model troop meeting is organized chaos. I want them to know,a nd dream about those adventures ahead.

 

 

One patch I saw in the UK, and I would love for it to be made asa temp patch for BS and Venturing leaders here. It's a pic of a fully uniformed leader with hands in pocket giving a shrug with a caption that reads: "Don't ask me, I'm only a leader."

 

[tayl0124]

There was also speculation at the meeting that adding the lion cub rank would eventually take off the second year webelos program for some who are already ready to advance. I have been told that in a lot of packs the boys are ready for the jump after the first year of webelos.

[Eagle92]

Back in the day, Webelos WAS a 1 year program. I know they added some more activity badges, but all they really did if memory serves is add age requirements, nothing else to spread the activities over the 18 to 24 month period. And I have seen gung ho Webelos complete everything within a year. The other thing is, b/c of the age requirements for AOL and school related ages( you have to be born before X day to be in this grade) I have seen folks who become Webelos June 1, and b/c of their late birthdays, say a Novemebr bday, they are eligible to receive their AOL and Crossover into scouting with only 1 year of Webelos.

 

[Mrw1]

My older son was in Tigers when it functioned poorly with the parents supposed to be leading a once a month meeting with t-shirt transfers for uniforms.

 

The parents were not prepared in any way for what they were supposed to do, the pack was well led, but lacked an additional leader to coach the Tiger parents, the kids were disappointed by getting only t-shirt transfers instead of any sort of actual uniform..... What we ended up with was more a group of boys that would never consider scouting again. Out of 12 kids, maybe 3 went on to become Wolves the next year.

 

Add smaller kids and remove participation in the pinewood derby and I see this going nowhere fast.

 

Probably a better move would be to encourage and provide support for packs for tag-along activities at Cub pack meetings and events so these youngsters - both boys and girls - enjoy the routine of Cub scouts when there is an older boy involved.

 

As for Daisies, consider that very many girls drop out of girl scouts right about 6th grade. Think any of that might be due to starting so early as well as the other irrelevancy factors the GSUSA seems to be facing?

 

The same for organized sports. The kids may have fun running around in a group, but have you ever actually watched 5 year olds playing team soccer? They have no clue and are not learning teamwork or rules. Someone needs to remember that little kids needs to be allowed to be little kids and have that time to explore thier world before we choose all their activities and sctructure all their time for them.

[tayl0124]

("My older son was in Tigers when it functioned poorly with the parents supposed to be leading a once a month meeting with t-shirt transfers for uniforms.

 

The parents were not prepared in any way for what they were supposed to do, the pack was well led, but lacked an additional leader to coach the Tiger parents, the kids were disappointed by getting only t-shirt transfers instead of any sort of actual uniform..... What we ended up with was more a group of boys that would never consider scouting again. Out of 12 kids, maybe 3 went on to become Wolves the next year.")

 

I felt this way about our tiger den. We had a den leader and an assistant(ME) and we really didn't have a clue as to what we were doing and I think it showed. Having a lion den would have helped us acclimate ourselves to the den leader position. I also found that most of the time it was difficult to get the kids to actually wear their uniform shirts, the scouts were more excited by being with their friends. I would like to see the Tiger level go parent free as I think discipline or lack thereof by the parents caused more problems than the kids age.

 

 

("Add smaller kids and remove participation in the pinewood derby and I see this going nowhere fast.")

 

I agree with the lack of participation in at least the pinewood derby, I think that is one real big factor in weather a boy wants to be a scout or not. Many that I have talked to who tried the lion program last year included he lions in the pinewood derby in some form or other.

 

("Probably a better move would be to encourage and provide support for packs for tag-along activities at Cub pack meetings and events so these youngsters - both boys and girls - enjoy the routine of Cub scouts when there is an older boy involved.")

 

This is why the lions would only have a fraction of the den meetings that the rest of the pack would have. And are part of the Pack meetings.

 

("As for Daisies, consider that very many girls drop out of girl scouts right about 6th grade. Think any of that might be due to starting so early as well as the other irrelevancy factors the GSUSA seems to be facing?")

 

I am not sure what there is after the 6th grade for Girl Scouts. Is it like the crossover to Boy Scouts?? If not I can see why girls would quit after the 6th grade. Think however that there are also a lot of boys who call it quits at that age also. My girlfriend was in Girl scouts through the 11th grade but during junior high she participated very little due to sports taking over most of her life.

 

("The same for organized sports. The kids may have fun running around in a group, but have you ever actually watched 5 year olds playing team soccer? They have no clue and are not learning teamwork or rules. Someone needs to remember that little kids needs to be allowed to be little kids and have that time to explore thier world before we choose all their activities and sctructure all their time for them.")

 

First off, this statement can be false in many instances. I have watched kids play team soccer, hockey, t-ball, football. The kids learn as much as the kids are able to. My son was one of those 5 year olds who ran around without learning teamwork or rules but you know the he did have FUN!!! It got him introduced to the sport. I also have cousins who have children that played on hockey teams and t-ball teams that were much more advanced than my son, which I am okay with, but there are teams for them out there if they would like to participate at that level. Having a Lion program available only lets the boys join IF they want to. It introduces them to scouting and lets them decide if they want to continue.