Crossing Over Dilema

[committee member]

Help! Our local Boy Scout Troop has put together a crossing over ceremony for our Webelos II. It is going to be outdoors, and the boys will camp that night with their new troop. We have just learned (17 days before crossing over) that 2 of our boys are going to different troops. At the time of planning all our boys were going to the same troop. Two of the troops do not want to participate in one crossing over and the other boy has not chosen a Troop yet so I can't contact the Scout Master to coordinate anything with him/her. Our committee chairperson (whose son hasn't decided which troop to go to) wants us to take over the crossing over ceremony to accomidate her son. She feels the pack is responsible for the crossing over ceremony. The Scout Master in charge of our ceremony (also a unit commissioner) informed us the Troop is in charge of crossing over and the other 2 boys should contact their future Scout Master. Being that my son is crossing over, I'm a committee member, my husband is the Cub Master, and we have already had disagreements with the CC over other issues... This is putting everyone in a mess. We would be more than happy to hold another ceremony for the other boys, but it would not be as elaborate as the one planned and that would probably upset people too. About ready to pull my patch... please help.

[Cubmaster Randy]

What has the history of the pack in regards to crossing ceremonies? What has been done in previous years?

My understanding is that it is a Pack event, but I cannot find the referecne material for this. Either way, Could the Scoutmaster of Troop A invite the Troop B to participate just for the crossover ceremony? To me that would be the scout-like thing to do. The SM may feel that he has been planning this and being that it is on a campout he may have put some time into it, but maybe a little cooperation would go a long way

 

I have a friend who is having a 2 pack, 3 troop crossover because the one den/pack had only 2 webelos were crossing over to a particlar troop and the other had one going to thhis troop. overall I think 20 boys will be taking part

 

Bottom line.. It should be about the boys

[committee member]

I agree whole heartedly - all about the boys. Usually crossover is at the Blue & Gold and we know what troops to invite in plenty of time to plan it. This year we wanted to try something different and go with an outdoor event. CC was all for it. We even planned a family farewell campout and dinner for us adults at a different campsite. (Most of us are going to miss all the overnighters together.) We did ask Scout Master about having the other troop(s) join in. Apparently Troops A & B have bad blood. The Leader Book says it is the Pack's responsibility. Let me explain breifly - the 2 boys not crossing with us - one is CC son, other is ex leaders son. Ex leader because he was giving Webelos pins after hitting one requirement. When my husband, CM, spoke to him about it our CC went to coucil to say he (CM)was a dictator. Council supported my husband and suggested CC step down if she didn't like how he was handling things. She didn't. Since then they have tried to sabotage everything we do. I feel like this is another attempt to screw something up. They had a conference with our SM and turned an application in to him. Last minute change leaves us scratching our heads. I didn't really want to go there with all that, but it might be important to the whole picture. Once again, we are not opposed to having another crossover, I just know they will complain because it isn't as nice. Don't they see while they are just giving me a slight headache - they are really screwing things up for the kids. I will never understand some people.

[SemperParatus]

Believe me, I am not trying to offend or attack you and your dilemma, but...if I got this right, there is bad blood between troops, bad blood between CC and CM, bad blood with a former Webelos leader...does anyone get along here?

 

The adults are just going to have to suck it up, let their petty jealousies take a back seat for a day, and do something positive for these boys.

 

As both a CM and SM, I have always viewed the crossover as a collaborative effort on the part of the pack and the troop. It is a time of transition, a time to say goodbye and a time to say welcome. Turning it into a turf battle is about as far from scouting ideals as you can get and it is the boys that suffer the most.

 

For the undecided boy and the other boy that is going to a different troop (which is refusing to participate in crossover), there is absolutely no reason that the main crossover troop and its SM cannot accept these boys 'into boy scouting' as part of the crossover. Such acceptance can be done without making a big deal about it, so as not to cause a boy to feel singled out and for his parents to scream about how offended they are.

 

Not that your CC cares, but I would say that crossover falls under the program responsibilities of the CM/SM. She really does not have a say, unless you let her. Your husband as CM and the SM should sit down and go over the ceremony with an eye on how to incorporate the boys not going into that troop as part of the ceremony. To me they are 'called out', 'brought forward', whatever the method used for the other scouts with maybe a small mention that they will be pursuing boy scouting with other troops. The troop can still present them with the same accoutrements (shoulder loops, handbook, generic neckerchief rather than troop necker) the other boys are receiving. The pack can foot the bill for these items which are only $10 each.

 

Best of luck to you for a successful resolution and a great crossover ceremony. I am sorry that you are having these problems.

[MaScout]

While technically the Arrow of Light is a Pack ceremony and the Bridging is a Troop ceremony, if this can be done in unison it is soooo much nicer for the BOYS.

 

I agree, it is a ceremony to be agreed upon by the CM & SM. If you can incorporate the other boys, that is awesome. It will speak volumes about maturity. Would it be possible to have a Pack ceremony the day or week before, then continue with the planned bridging at the camp out? Or is this just opening another can of worms?

 

Our Pack & Troop have held the ceremonies separately when there was "bad blood" or the Pack leadership didn't get their act together or didn't make an awesome plan. But it seems quite disrespectful to the troop who has made special plans for the bridging to say no at this late date...

 

Who are the children here?

[SeattlePioneer]

It's a Pack activity, and the Cubmaster and Pack Committee should decide how the activity will be conducted.

 

So, have the crossover ceremony. What happens after that is a Boy Scout Troop activity.

 

 

Competition for Webelos Scouts is often keen, and hurt feeling can be easily aroused.

 

Last June, our troop supported the Cub Scout overnight camp, helping all the Cubs make foil pizzas.

 

The largest troop in the area sent several people just before the crossover ceremony, and told the Cubmaster, "We'll just initiate everyone into our troop to keep things simple." That's while our Scouts and adult leaders were helping cleaning up the mess from dinner.

 

The Scouts from the other troop did help eat up dinner, though.

 

The Pack leadership needs to be in charge and insist that all the boys be included and respected. It might be better for the new Boy Scouts to establish their own camp for the night with the assistance of the Scout Troop. Nothing wrong with having all the Webelos have a nice overnight camp together before they split up.

 

And a pushy Scoutmaster should be advised to co-operate or back out.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[Backwoods]

Hmm... bad blood. Semper (as usual in my experience) has an excellent grasp of the situation and excellent advice. I do want to highlight that the CM is the one where the rubber hits the road in this situation. Overall program leadership and planning fall within his area of responsibility. He is the one who needs to decide how to arrange the ceremonies. My instinct says that he may be the only one who is "sucking it up" at this point and is willing to try to make it work as it is. The problem is there are too many chiefs in your area and not enough injuns (appologies for the outdated, useful, but politically incorrect native american reference).

 

You are too close to the date to change course at this time without wrecking havoc. Ditto to Semper and to Randy. We in our Pack are blessed with leadership that gets along in our area. Two Main Troops recieve my boys at crossover. The Troops send scouts, and at least one leader to the B&G where the A of L is awarded and the boys are sent across a ceremonial bridge with great pomp and ceremony. We have a similar ceremony every year and I as Cubmaster plan it with input from Committee, Parents, Den Leaders and Cubs. The Troop leadership has never tried to plan it for us or has ever dictated the program in any way.

 

Keep in mind the Arrow of Light is the "Eagle Scout" rank of Cub scouting. It is not just the last piece of the patch collection. The boys bridging over are earning the most difficult to earn rank in all of Cub Scouting, the only CS award allowed to be worn on the BS Uniform. It is a big deal and it is their right to be celebrated. The Bridging over is not the Troops' it is the boys' ceremony as they leave CS.

 

Not a lot can be done this year except to make arrangements for next year's ceremony starting now. Don't let the program get highjacked again. I don't know if your husband is planning on continuing as CM after your son moves up, in some ways it does not make a difference. Next year's ceremony needs to be sketched out on paper in the documents he leaves behind as he leaves, or in his own notes for the future. This is if he is concerned about this as much as you are. If he is not concerned this whole thread doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

 

Good luck!

 

Yours in Scouting,

-Steve

[resqman]

We hold our B&G in February and include the AOL ceremony. April we have our spring campout and bridging ceremony. They are different events.

 

The AOL ceremony is a Pack event celebrating the achievement of AOL. It is not a graduation or bridging ceremony.

 

Roughly two months later we hold a bridgeing ceremony where all scouts advance to their next rank. The Webelos II and AOL reciepents bridge from Cub Scouting to Boy Scouting. Remember you do not have to earn you AOL to bridge to Boy Scouts. Last year we had at least 5 different troops invited to accept their new members. Each troop sent an adult represenative along with at least one Boy Scout to welcome the boy into their Troop. It is a Pack ceremony. The troops are invited to recieve their new members. If the troops wish to hold thier own ceremony accepting the new scouts, that is up to them to organize.

 

It sounds as if the ties with your troop are so close, they have taken over the Pack responsibilites of the Pack bridging ceremony.

[John-in-KC]

Two comments.

 

Agree with Semper and the others. Get those last two boys across the bridge. Let them camp and learn as guests of the Troop most of the boys are going. I rather suspect they'll pick up a skill or two that weekend!

 

As to everyone saying "AOL is a Pack Ceremony", "Bridging is a Pack Ceremony", and/or "Bridging is a Troop Ceremony", can you please point these statements out in a BSA publication for me? Last time I checked, who did what, especially in bridging, was SHARED! OTOH, I do know of youth who said goodbye to the pack, waited a few weeks, and then formally said hello to the Troop.

 

I know of NO advancement requirement for the AOL, joining a Troop, or the rank of Scout that says "Participate in a ceremony." Do you?

[Lisabob]

I helped organize B&Gs the whole time my son was in cubs and it was never the troop's responsibility to plan or run things; it is the pack's. Now we tried to coordinate with the troop(s) in question so that everyone knew their role and we were always happy to accomodate them if they wanted to do anything special. However, the PACK calls the shots here, not the troop.

 

Also: there's no reason more than one troop couldn't attend a bridging ceremony if you have boys crossing into several troops. We just did this last week - went to a B&G where 2 other troops were in attendance. It worked out fine and all the adults worked together for the best of ALL the boys.

 

If you are dealing with troop leaders who cannot see this, well I'd be concerned about having my boy join their troop; they don't appear to be living up to the scout law very well, themselves. What kind of role model would they be for my boy?

 

Good luck and keep the adult politics under lock and key if you can.

 

Lisa'bob

[Lisabob]

John, I absolutely agree that ideally, a pack and troop(s) should work together to organize this event, since both will be taking part. However I would say it is ultimately the pack that is in charge simply because the ceremony is taking place at a pack event (pack meeting). Others may have different experiences, but mine has been that troops are always invited guests at B&G and/or at bridging ceremonies. And the guests aren't in charge of the party.

 

Lisa'bob

[Oak Tree]

I agree with Lisa'bob - it's a pack event around here.

 

Boys from a pack can cross into multiple troops. But it's one pack that runs the pack meeting. It's not a troop meeting, where boys from multiple packs can join. At least not the way we do it.

 

The troops are our invited guests. The pack sets the agenda, and controls the ceremony up to the point where the boys cross the bridge. But we do plan all of this in conjunction with the primary receiving troop.

 

It sounds like your situation is different. But it certainly looks like it would work better if the pack were in charge from the beginning and added troops as necessary.

 

Oak Tree

[committee member]

Ok guys I haven't slept well for 3 days over this so let me comment and update. Bravo to most replies here, but some of you are confusing the situation. The B&G is over. The Pack sponsored it. AOL went great. When the bridging was planned months ago, all boys were going to one Troop so the Troop asked if they could do something special outdoors. All parents agreed and bridging was not at B&G as in previous years where more than one troop did participate together. They have secured the local campgrounds, planned the ceremony, put together a reception dinner.. blah, blah. Now at last minute parents want other Troops invited and SM is not wanting that. I forgot to mention the other SM won't attend something another Troop is hosting. Sooo.. My hubby, a mix between the wise old owl and the gentle giant, called the district commisioner (we don't have a uc so no comments on jumping rank please). He said no ceremony is necessary, some packs don't do it at all. If the Troop wants to do something for the boys they are receiving they can. Ok, so now we have the answer. Didn't ease my mind at all though. Still feels unfair to the other 2 boys. So, as my hubby and I are discussing a way to include all boys anyway the SM calls to say he will be happy to bridge all boys just doesn't want the other SM there. Now, this may not be the perfect answer, but with such short notice it's the best it's gonna get. And it will be the last time my butt is in this sling.

Thanks to all of you for spending part of your "one hour per week" to help out your fellow Scouters.

[Cubmaster Randy]

Not to get into the politics of it all or who or what is right, but will the SM allow some Boy Scouts from the other unit to attend. They could recieve the 2 new scouts.

[OneHour]

I guess that I can't really comment on your particular situation Committee Member; however, I could tell you how our Pack has done and it seems to appease everyone.

 

To us the Arrow of Light ceremony and/or Bridging ceremony is a Pack's event. The CM and his staff set it up and contact all parties involved, including the receiving Scoutmaster(s). For our Pack, we usually combined the two events into one nice ceremony outdoor (be it on a Pack campout or by itself at the local park). We would ask our District's Order of the Arrows Lodge for a dance team to perform the bridging ceremony. As each scout crosses the bridge, there would be a SM and/or his SPL of the troop the scout is joing there to receive him. The Scoutmasters and/or their SPLs do not have to camp with us. They simply show up for the event. That is why we keep the campout close to home. There was one case where one of the Scoutmasters could not make it; as a result, the scoutmaster for the other troop stepped in an received the scout any way.

 

Oak Tree is absolutely correct. The troops, the scoutmasters, the Order of the Arrows dance team, and everyone else who are not the Webelos II are guests.

 

Bottom line ... it does matter for the scouts to have it together and it would be great if his scoutmaster is there to receive him; however, it is not a show stopper! Simply work it out with the scoutmasters!

 

The unit commissioner is not correct. The ceremony may be performed by the troop but the whole ceremony is run and orchestrated by the Pack. I have asked the participating troop to alter their ceremony a bit to accomodate a few things that the folks in the pack want. The troop members are members of the Order of the Arrows and they should be performing this service without any qualms or problems! So far, 10 out of 10 times, they have provided us wonderful ceremonies with a smile ... and we don't always get the same troop!

 

To have two separate ceremonies should not even be thought of! The boys came into cub scouts together and have been through the program together. They should leave together! My 2 cents.

 

Good luck!

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)