Girls In Cub Scouts

[DanKroh]

mbscoutmom, I'm pretty sure that your boys will still turn into men and your girls will NOT turn into men, no matter how deeply they may or may not be involved in Cub Scouting (tongue firmly in cheek).

 

That said, I agree that it is a bad idea to have a coed kindergarten program that will then leave the girls stranded when they get into first grade. Yes, there is nothing that says that life is fair, but I think this crosses a line from "unfair" into "intentionally cruel".

 

There are deep psychological differences between boys and girls, which is why (of the three "G" controversies) I come down on the side of the current policy for this one.

 

However, I think that allowing siblings (of either gender) to participate in cub scouting activities is fine. The only caveat I would put upon it is that it should be up to each parent to gauge the comfort of their son with having the sibling hanging around. If my older son had ever complained about having his little brother tag along to cub scouting events, I would have tried to find a way to divert my younger son's attention to other activities during that time (which would be no easy task, considering I am a single parent). At the time, the cub scout experience was my older son's, and if having his little brother along was hampering that, then I would have tried to find a way to appease both boys, without making either one feel that they were missing out.

 

My younger son had to deal with not being allowed to go to Boy Scout events (other than family events and COH), but only for a few months until he became a Tiger and had his own scouting "stuff" to do. But since I am not a leader (at this time) in my older son's troop, I can use that time to do something special with my younger son. I did take him along to the troop meetings when I was doing a merit badge session for a couple of weeks, but he sat quietly (well, as quietly as a 6 y.o. with ADHD can!) out of the way and played his game boy during the meeting. Although he did get the arrow I made as an example to teach the boy scouts how to make arrows.

 

In short, as long as the sibling's participation is not taking anything away from the actual scouts (monetary, interaction, or comfort-wise), I don't see any harm in letting a sister or brother participate in pack and even den activities, as long as they are age appropriate. But I agree that siblings should not be eligible to earn advancement patches.

[ScoutNut]

Girls can not be MEMBERS of the BSA until they are 14 & can join a Venturing Crew. Girls can not receive EARNED Cub Scout Awards. Girls ARE a part of the Cub Scout's FAMILY.

 

Per BSA National website on the subject of family participation & siblings in Cub Scouting -

 

"As a program for the entire family, Cub Scouting can help families teach their children a wholesome system of values and beliefs while building and strengthening relationships among family members."

 

"It's worth the effort to keep a family strong. For this reason, Cub Scouting seeks not only to help the boy, but to unite and support the entire family."

 

"Weekly den meetings are intended for the boys to interact with one another and their leaders in a small group setting. Any gathering on the pack level, however, is intended for Cub Scouts and their families."

 

"Besides being fun, family camping is a chance for quality time together and an enriched family life."

 

"Pack overnighters are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved sites. If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured to accommodate them."

 

For resident & parent/scout camping (also Boy Scout & Venturing) that is structured for a particular group of Scouts -

 

"If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers."

 

 

Bottom line is that CUBS is a FAMILY program, but there are times when the program is set up specifically for the Scouts & NOT the siblings. If sibs must be brought to den meetings they should not distract the boys from their activities or their meeting. The leaders should be concentrating on the Scouts, not the sibs. Sibs can be put at another table (or room) to quietly do their own thing (color, homework, reading, etc), supervised by an extra parent or older sibling. They can do the same crafts as the boys if the den has agreed to provide them or if the parent has paid for extras. They can be included in any song or games ONLY if they are age appropriate & it will not interfere with the boys doing those things.

 

PACK activities are meant to be for the WHOLE family. Including parents & sibs in crafts, songs & games is a must & these activities should take into account the age spread of everyone involved.

 

No one is even REMOTELY suggesting (in THIS thread) that girls join BSA or be awarded achievement or rank awards. However, MANY leaders/dens/packs, will purchase (with scout or personal $) extra participation/activity patches for sibs who go along on special outings.

 

Since both parents were Scout Leaders, both my son & daughter attended many of the meetings & outings of their sib's scout group. They were NOT members of the other's scout group, just along for the ride. My son had patches on his "brag vest" from different Girl Scout Days (zoo, museum, state parks, etc) that he attended. My daughter had a large BSA Family Jamboree patch on her Junior GS vest & Sports pins she helped her brother earn back when the S/A program allowed that. He would go with her to do door-to door cookie take orders. She would go with him to do popcorn take orders. When she got older my daughter worked with her brother's den to help earn her various Girl Scout leadership & service awards. She is still (at 20.5 years) the best the Pack has for figuring out what to put on car & costume certificates (I tend to boring things like greenest or fuzzy)!

 

 

[JillKB]

ScoutNut - I think you did a great job of explaining it and being fair. Thank you for doing so in a calm, level-headed manner. (I was starting to wonder if I was on a political forum rather than a scout forum.)

[ScoutNut]

Ahhhhh - As you have discovered, ANY thread can become political, and/or heated, with some of our posters. Especially if you pair the two words "girls" & "BSA"!

 

Don't worry, you will soon learn when to duck & run for cover! They are a great bunch over all!

 

 

 

[Kudu]

No one is even REMOTELY suggesting (in THIS thread) that girls ... be awarded achievement or rank awards.

 

Well, I did!

 

If girls are hanging out in the general vicinity and picking up skills, and if you have the time and inclination, you could award them generic advancement awards just for fun.

 

Photographs of the awards (called "ranks" in the BSA) that are available by mail from the UK Rover Explorer Scouts Association can be found at The Inquiry Net:

 

http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/generic.htm

 

These badges are based on Baden-Powell's program, so they might not be similar to the USA model (I'm not familiar with the BSA Cub Scout Program). Since it is not official, you could mix and match, or even let the Cubs tag along when the girls' activities are more interesting than theirs :-)

 

Here are the Traditional requirements for the four "Otter Paws" advancement patches for the "Otter" (or "Beaver" in most countries) Section (ages 5-7):

 

Helping Badge (Red Paw)

1. Know about helping others and sharing with others.

2. Know about cleanliness and caring for your clothes.

3. Be helpful around the house.

4. Do a good turn for a relative or a neighbor.

5. Take part in a Kim's Game.

6. Take part in the Message Game.

7. Know how to wash dishes and clean up a table.

8. Take part in a Pack good turn.

9. Visit an Old Folk's Home and help serve tea and cookies.

10. Help set up your meeting hall.

 

Activity Badge (Blue Paw)

1. Be able to throw and catch a ball.

2. Take part in a night hike.

3. Take part in two day hikes.

4. Be able to sing 3 songs.

5. Have an awareness of children with disabilities.

6. Know how to Skip Rope.

7. Take part in team and solo games or sports.

8. Know how to be a good loser and a good winner.

 

Handicraft Badge (Purple Paw)

1. Draw, and color, a scene or event from a story.

2. Draw a picture of your house.

3. Make a Thank You card.

4. Make a model.

5. Make a collage.

6. Collect 25 stamps and mount them in a book.

7. Make two craft items.

8. Tie a Square (reef) knot.

9. Make a bird feeder from a milk jug.

10. Visit a petting zoo.

 

Nature Badge (Green Paw)

1. Know about caring for the outdoors.

2. Name 6 animals that are kept as pets.

3. Make a scrap book about Otters.

4. Collect 10 flowers and 10 leaves and press them.

5. Grow a seed in a water soaked paper towel.

6. Grow a carrot top in water.

7. Take part in a Pack Nature Walk.

8. Take part in a trail clean-up.

9. Plant, and take care of a tree for at least a year

 

Details for Otters (boys & girls, ages 5-7) are at:

 

http://inquiry.net/traditional/otter/handbook/index.htm

 

Details for Timber Wolves (boy & girls, ages 8 - 10) are at:

 

http://inquiry.net/traditional/timberwolf/handbook/index.htm

 

Kudu

[TheScout]

While we are at it, I'm thinking about making up my own requirements for Eagle Scout. Any suggestions?

[Kudu]

Sure, something along the lines of Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Cheerful?

 

Kudu

[woody01]

Like it or not guys the writing is in the wall.

The new Lion Program is co-ed for K-aged kids

At 14 girls can join vent. program.

Guess whats next. I have a 61/2 year old Tiger &

& a 3 year old Girl. I say bring it on. I do not think

I would look good in a smock. Honesty I like the Cub

program in my area better than the GSA Program.

I do not like going 1/2 way if you are going to let

Girls be in vent. there should be a cub aged program too!!!!

 

ps. around here girls play L.L. with the boys. Most of

them can hit better too.

[TheScout]

I guess you are right, If girls can be in Little League where you live, that must mean they should be in Cub Scouts too.

[ScoutNut]

Nothing I have heard of the few (approx 3) councils that are running trial Kindergarten Lion programs has said anything about the program being co-ed.

 

Rather than start a rumor - please post a link to a council site stating the Lion trial program is co-ed.

 

Until then, as far as the programs I have heard of, they are all just for boys, and ALL still in the TRIAL phase. Nothing has been rolled out nationally.

 

[JillKB]

It isn't a rumor...the program is definitely still in trial but the Lions are DEFINITELY co-ed. Our pack is not doing it but two other packs in our council are doing it and I've had conversations with one of their Cubmasters about how things were going for them. I don't know what the reason, but neither our council or national are publicizing it on their sites or otherwise (and believe me, I've searched). They're probably afraid of a reaction similar to what I've experienced on this forum. I'll contact our council for details & see what they're willing to share.

[TheScout]

It is the shame that the BSA has to pioneer a program that they are scared of publicizing.

 

What does that say for the virtues of the program?

[nldscout]

Its not that they are scared of publicizing it. All new programs are brought out in a limited number of councils to work the bugs out.

[resqman]

"and don't forget the District Pinewood Derby. In most districts I have seen siblings and parents racing. Lets stop them from racing too." Cubmaster Randy

 

A race is a family oriented Pack and or District wide event. If the Pack sets up a seperate bracket for siblings, parents, and other non-member car builders, then yes they could race. Non-member parties should not be racing directly against scouts, even if the same age.

 

Our Pack has had an open bracket where non-scouts can compete. It does not currently have such a bracket. Our district race does not have such a bracket.

 

Members pay dues which payes for the track and trophies. Maybe if non-members paid an entrance fee to defray the costs of awards, then they could have their own division or bracket. Because a Pack held open races does not imply or require to District also hold such races.

 

Scouting is a wonderful program that promotes the highest ideals that I would like all people of all sub-groups to try to live by. There is a cost to participate in the program. That cost is many things including time, money, and effort. As a volunteer, I donate my time and effort to ensure the members of my den and pack have the best program I can provide. Part of the program includes teaching rules and consequences. I don't give out awards and badges because I like the boys. I award badges because the member followed the rules and met the requirements of the program. If the member does not follow the rules or complete all the requirements, the consequence is he does not get awarded.

 

By allowing non-members to be awarded the same patches, badges, pins, certificates, and other recognition, it falsifies the experience of the members. It says to the members you don't have to follow the rules.

 

The BOY Scout program is a wonderful program. That is why it is copied by so many other similar organizations. I understand why non-members want to be in the program. But allowing non-members the same priviledges as members, you do a disservice to all.

[t158sm]

The Scouts in my troop would argue to allow girls to participate any day!

 

On a more serious note - if it makes a child happy, why try to deny them that happiness?