Girls In Cub Scouts

[Cubmaster Randy]

Girls are not allowed to join and be a a member as they don't fulfill the first obvious requirment of being a boy. Hence They should not be working on badges or ranks.

But there are programs within the BSA for the family.

One of these is called the BSA family award.

 

Campouts in cub scouting are defined to be "Family camping" I am not sure what you mean that they should just be observers. I would find it hard to tell a family that they should go camping but the only ones that can particiapte in the program is the cub scout.

A girl racing in the pinewood derby (sibling, open or family class) should not be an issue. I would agree that they should not be racing in a den race against the other boys, but make them sit on the sideline and watch? If you give them a patch what is the real issue with that

 

I don't follow the anology between scouts and a baseball team

A CubScout den is not the same thing as a baseball team. A Boy Scout patrol maybe, but we are talking about girls in Cub Scouts

[evmori]

Yes sit on the sidelines and watch and no patch. And the baseball team analogy fits perfectly! Little leaguers are Cub Scout age. And if Johnny is a member of the team he can play. Sister Suzie can't if she isn't a member.

 

Are the siblings being chartered by the Pack? Do they pay den dues? I doubt it. Then why should they get the benefit of being a member of the Pack?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[jens3sons]

I guess our pack right now has had a major shift in leadership. When I first started the pack was primarily "woman run", now, other than myself as committee chair, there is only two moms who are den leaders, but have male co-leaders. While siblings have never been turned down for participating (especially if it meant that the boy could not come) I try to remind the parents that Pack Meeting nights are for the family, but that den meetings should try to be JUST the boys and their leaders (or on the tiger level, the boy and parent) to allow some "male bonding". I tell the fathers in my pack at least half a dozen times how proud I am of them for "stepping up to the plate" in a world where so many fathers are either absent all the time or travel etc. The men in my pack have found a way to make even the ones who travel for work still be effective den leaders. I think this is something the boys need and crave.

 

It also allows time for the boys to be away from the pressure of being a sibling (especially when they have sisters) but even different age brothers get a chance to be away from each other when it is their "own" den meeting and outings. I know that when I was a brownie and a girl scout (and had to quit because no one would be leaders anymore) I thouroughly enjoyed just having "girl times". We went camping and did some "boyish" things, but there was not the pressure of competing against the boys either.

 

From what I have heard, BSA does run a more established program than the girl scouts, so I could understand the point of a girl wanting to enjoy our program, however, I feel each needs their own "space" from time to time as well.

[msnowman]

The difference between Cubs and Little League is that girls can go out for Little League if they want to. It is an available option for them, Cubs isn't.

 

Ultimately each Pack will handle this issue as works best for them and the families they have involved. What works in Tiny Town, Maine doesn't necessarily work in Large City, Nebraska. As long as the boys aren't being short-changed and are getting a well-rounded, fun and interesting program, we will continue this way.

 

I love this Scouting family

YiS

Michelle

[JillKB]

Well I guess I didn't realize I was going to cause such a debate. My original post was simply because I had heard that someone elses daughter had been awarded things...and that part didn't make sense to me so I was curious about it. I wasn't implying that I believe she should actually be considered a cub scout.

 

I will tell you that I am the Committee Chair as well as a Tiger Leader. My husband is also a Tiger leader. My oldest son just crossed over into boy scouting. So the whole family is very active in scouts and it is almost a necessity that my daughter accompany us to our den and pack meetings. She is only 3 and is not old enough to understand that she's not really a tiger. She wears a pack shirt (not a tiger shirt) and she calls herself a "cub scout girl". When she gets older we will definitely try Girl Scouts, but even then I'm sure she'll continue to be included in our cub scouting activities. Luckily, our council is very family friendly. Siblings can participate in council events...even day camp....and siblings receive patches for council events. Because I'm running the den I pay for most of the craft supplies, etc. myself so she's not costing the pack anything. And when the boys earned their Tiger badge I presented her with a "Cinderella patch".

 

I probably spend 15 hours a week (probably more) on running our pack....and I have to say that if council or national or whoever had a problem with my daughter participating at the level that she currently at, that would be the end of my cub scouting career.

 

I really have mixed feelings about it, but I also believe that national is working on integrating girls into cub scouting just as they are in Canada and other countries. We've got the older girls coming in through Venturing and now the younger girls coming in through Lions. It may take another 10 years but I think that's the direction we're headed.... like it or not.

[Lisabob]

Jill, I'm sure I've missed something here but is the Lions program co-ed? We don't have Lions around here yet and I know it is only the pilot stages elsewhere. I hadn't realized it would be co-ed though. If so, what on earth do they plan to tell all those little girls when they finish K? That somehow there's been a magical change and they are no longer welcome in the cub pack??? Seems like a terrible set up to me if that's what's going on.

 

Lisa'bob

[resqman]

How is letting girls or silibings participate any different than allowing professed homosexuals, not religious people, or boys of a different age particiapte. BSA has a set of rules in order for you to be a MEMBER of their organization. If you don't agree to abide by the rules, you are not allowed to join and participate.

 

Part of joining is filling out an application, paying dues to support the program, and following the rules. While siblings may attend the designated family programs such as campouts and pack meetings, they should not be recieving patches for achievements because they are not members of the organization.

 

My one son is a member of a soccer team. My other son cannot just jump onto the field and join in because I don't have a babysitter. In order to play on the team, you must fill out an application, pay dues, and follow the rules of the organization. When the team goes to games or tournaments, the family goes along and cheers from the sideline. We do not sit on the bench with the players and pretend to be team members. We do not get trophies because we drove him to the field. It is an organization for MEMBERS within a specific age and gender who follow the organization rules.

 

If I had a daughter, she could join a girls sports team just like a daughter can join Girl Scouts. Yes, the team would be different. That is because the RULES explicty indicate that you must be a certain gender, age, and a MEMBER. Only members can particiapate.

 

When I hold den meetings at my home, my older son does not participate in the activities because he is not a MEMBER of the Den or Pack. Just as his brother is not allowed to play soccer because he is not a member.

 

Some of my scouts have younger siblings. Parents usually bring them at the end of the meetings to pick up their brothers. The meeting is over and they are allowed to admire our activities and join in the post meeting fun. They do not get awards, patches, or pins. They get to cheer from the sidelines.

 

Life is not fair. Just because I want a office with a window view on the top floor does not mean I get one because my brother does.

[JillKB]

Part of joining is filling out an application, paying dues to support the program, and following the rules. While siblings may attend the designated family programs such as campouts and pack meetings, they should not be recieving patches for achievements because they are not members of the organization.

 

resqman- Although you are entitled to your opinion, it seems contrary to what our council practices. Siblings DO receive patches for participating in council sponsored events such as day camp, tiger safari, winterfest, etc. even though they are not registered members. I would have to assume that our council is following BSA guidelines in handling their programs in this manner.

 

And as far as participating in den meetings, do you have any BSA documentation that shows that Joey's 3 year old little sister absolutely SHOULD NOT be invited to sit down and make a toilet paper tube tiger with the boys because she is not a registered Tiger? (laughing)

[JillKB]

Lisabob - Lions is a pilot program in our area and this is the first year. It is co-ed and is for kindergarteners. Our pack is not doing it this year but there are 2 other packs in our area that do have Lion Dens. I'm not sure how many there are nationally. And I have no idea what they expect these girls to do after the Lion year because as of now, they can't continue on into Tigers. But when they are Lions, they are registered in that Pack and participate in all Pack activities...including Pack meetings. Neither national or our council has made any information public on this program yet. And like I said, I have mixed feelings about it but there's no denying that the girls are being integrated from both ends (younger and older).

[Cubmaster Randy]

and don't forget the District Pinewood Derby. In most districts I have seen siblings and parents racing. Lets stop them from racing too.

 

Are we talking about the same type of patches. I am referring to particpation patches one might get.(If the pack wants to buy them)

Not Achievement patches (awards)

There are activities that the family members can partipate in even if they are not card carrying members. and yes if you reread my posts on this thread , there are activities that should just be for the boys.. (age/gender approriate)

 

Lions- coed bad idea, IMHO

[Cubmaster Randy]

(This message has been edited by Cubmaster Randy)

[TheScout]

It is good to see that people decide to make there own rules and justify them by saying how important they are to the program.

 

Thanks.

[JillKB]

The program existed way before I arrived and could get along just fine without me. I am also not of the opinion that my time invested into scouting gives me any right to bend any rules. Don't twist my words. I have a great amount of respect for the BSA and it is very important to me to follow the rules. In order to know if you are properly following the rules sometimes you have to ask questions...am I going to be condemned for asking the question? I'm simply asking for documentation that the BSA forbids or even discourages sibling particpation in pack/den activities.

[Lisabob]

(I post this with a big grin on my face because the response pattern has gotten to be rather predictable):

 

Jill, most likely without realizing it, your post touched on one of the more divisive issues in the BSA community...GIRLS...(shudder). One sure way to know when this has happened is that sooner or later the "Three Gs" get dragged into things (G-d, gays, and girls) and, as has happened here, equated in some way (note resqman's post)

 

So, feel free to ignore any firestorms that may be going on in the background because they probably have little or nothing to do with you or your actual question.

 

As to your request for BSA regulations: as someone else mentioned, leaders are taught as part of BALOO (Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation - essentially rules for going camping with cub scouts) that sibling participation should be discouraged, but not necessarily banned. However, BALOO also teaches that in the case that siblings of any age/gender are present, age-appropriate activities and appropriate supervision are required. Additionally, mixed gender sleeping arrangements are generally not allowed when camping (though, for councils that run family camps, I imagine this prohibition does not apply to family sleeping arrangements? Our council doesn't do this so I'm not sure).

 

Beyond that, yes, to earn the Tiger/Wolf/bear/Webelos/AoL ranks, you must be a member and various posters are correct in stating that girls, by definition, may not be members.

 

But beyond that...many units do not do everything by the rules. Perhaps they should, and I'd be a little uncomfortable with the idea that packs are awarding rank advancements to non-members (girls or otherwise) - but that's a debate for another thread (in the "Issues and Politics" section) , since all you were seeking here is information and not raging debate.

 

Please don't hesitate to ask more questions here! We're really a pretty nice bunch most of the time.

 

Lisa'bob

[mbscoutmom]

I have 2 daughters and 3 sons. The oldest girl was in Brownies for a year, but we weren't thrilled with it. When the boys got old enough for Cub Scouts, we put them in it, and over the years have become more and more involved. We love scouts, and I wish our daughters could have had a similar experience with Girl Scouts when they were growing up. But I don't wish they could have joined Boy Scouts! Cub and Boy Scouts are designed for boys, not girls. There are so many ways that society tries to make girls be just like boys--wearing their clothes, playing on sports teams with them, etc. Cub and Boy Scouts is designed to turn boys into men, and I wouldn't want it turning my girls into men!