Blue vs Tan Shirts

[resqman]

When my den moved up, as leaders we informally polled the parents and said we would prefer that everyone switch to the tan shirt. I offered to accept all the blue shirts and start a uniform closet for the pack. No takers in my den.

 

One parent is saving his son's blue uniform intact as a momento. One parent handed down the blue shirt to a younger brother. Third boy still has a younger brother coming along who will need the blue shirt. I turned my son's blue shirt into a shadow box keepsake. The other leader suggested we move to the tan shirt and bought his son a tan shirt. The last boy was new to scouting and started with a tan.

 

The other Webelos I den in our pack is also all wearing tan. We had a Webelos II gradutate AOL last weekend in all blue uniform. While not a Pack requirement, it seems to be a habit for Webelos to move over to the tan shirts.

 

We have made a point of telling our boys that because they have tan shirts, they are more noticeable to the younger Cubs and they should lead by example. They were all very proud of their tan shirts.

[Crooked Arrow]

As an old cubmaster, I told the boys it was their choice as to which shirt to wear (this was in compliance with scout policy). If that blue shirt fit, then wear it. If the scout was busting at the seams, then it might be time to invest in a new shirt, preferably khaki as that would set the stage for crossing over to the troop. Everyone knew who were the Webelos scouts by their neckerchiefs.

 

However, don't forget about which type of Webelos badge will be given to the scout when he reaches that rank. The older diamond shaped badge is meant for the blue shirt while the oval badge is for the khaki shirt. Hopefully, your scout shop will carry a supply of both badges.

[4theboys]

I, for one, was sad to see BSA authorize Webelos to wear the tan shirt. All through life special occasions are marked by the purchase of a new outfit. First day of school, first communion, prom, etc. Being able to purchase that tan uniform shirt for that first Troop meeting made it all that more special to the boys. But no one asked my opinion. Our Pack has always just brought a Webelos scout into the Tiger room and said "picture your son this size and buy your shirt accordingly". We have Tigers and Wolves with shirts down to their knees, but most make it to graduation with one uniform.

[jens3sons]

One of the key arguments for switching to the tan uniform shirt, that I don't believe has been emphasized well enough, is the problem that arose with Tiger Rank becoming an actual Rank. The reason most are switching to the tan is so that they do not need to take their Tiger Rank patch off of the uniform, and replace it with the Webelos Rank. The boys who are earning their AOL this year, were the first boys to have earned the Tiger Rank as a Rank. National had to come up with a solution for this situation. Going to the tan shirt at the time of earning the Webelos Rank is a great time to switch. The Oval Webelos Rank patch is the same shape as the Boy Scout Ranks, thus less patches to switch over when they become Boy Scouts. The oval shaped Webelos Rank patch may NOT be worn on the blue uniform shirt. When I purchased my son's tan shirt, I kept in mind (just like when he was a Wolf Cub Scout) plenty of growing room, so that he could get a year or two out of the tan shirt while a Boy Scout. I agree it also will be less of a financial drain when he crosses into a troop. When one thinks of summer camps, membership fees, and if the pack didn't go camping, all of the camping equipment to purchase, I for one would rather get the uniform cost out of the way this year!

[LongHaul]

The Tan Shirt is the only offical Webelos shirt. The option of Blue or Tan has passed. The square Webelos patch is no longer in production though There are probably still some around which are being sold. When it was an option it was supposed to be a den decision. Everyone wears blue or tan but no patchwork dens. Webelos is supposed to be a transition program between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. The boys are suppposed to be forming a group identity which is tough if there are two different color uniforms. Once again no one is going to show a boy wearing a Blue shirt the door but no matter what the justification to keep the Blue shirt it's no longer the proper uniform.

LongHaul

[fgoodwin]

Longhaul, do you have an official source for your pronouncement that the diamond Webelos badge is no longer in production?

 

LDS units don't use the Tiger program, so it was my understanding (I am not LDS) that they would continue to use the diamond Webelos badge.

 

If that's correct, then it is premature to say that Webelos cannot wear the blue shirt.

 

The decision as to which shirt to wear is a family decision, according to the Webelos handbook. Do you have a cite to an official BSA source that indicates the uniform decision is up to the den?

 

I would be very careful citing absolutes unless you have the sources to back them up.

 

YiS,

 

Fred Goodwin, UC

Alamo Area Council

[ScoutNut]

From the BSA National website -

 

"Webelos Scouts may choose to wear either the blue Webelos uniform based on the Cub Scout uniform or the tan/olive uniform similar to the one Boy Scouts wear."

 

From the Uniform Inspection form -

 

"Olive/Tan Webelos Scout Uniform. Webelos Scouts electing this option wear blue shoulder loops, Webelos neckerchief, and Webelos cap. Blue (preferred) or olive belt may be worn. Academics and Sports belt loops will fit only on the blue belt. BADGE PLACEMENT IS THE SAME AS FOR BLUE UNIFORM."

 

From the Uniform Inspection form on badge placement -

 

"Webelos Scouts wear only current badge of rank(Bobcat,Wolf, Bear, or Webelos badge) centered on pocket. Option: Webelos Scouts who have not earned the Tiger Cub rank may wear all rank badges earned with diamond-shaped Webelos badge."

 

 

The above means that the Webelos can pick either the tan or blue uniform & can wear the oval or the diamond on either uniform.

 

 

[LongHaul]

My information came from the instructions in the training material we got from National two years ago. When there were two books in use and there was a cut off date to still use the old book. The mention that the Blue uniform for Webelos and the diamond shaped badge were being phased out was made at that time. I've turned these over to the new trainer but will try and locate publication numbers. The 2005 insignia Guide does still show the diamond shaped badge.

Scoutnut, where on the National site did you find the information you quoted?

LongHaul

[fgoodwin]

LH, I was a WDL in 2003 when the current Webelos HB came out. I don't recall any special "instructions" from National that said anything about ending production of the diamond Webelos patch.

 

In fact, the cover of the current Webelos HB shows both patches on the cover and spine. On p20, it mentions that the choice of shirt is up to the boy & his parents. It says nothing about phasing out the blue shirt or diamond patch.

 

Pages 10 and 11 of the 2005 edition of the Insignia Guide show both the oval and diamond, with no mention that the blue patch will be phased out by a date certain. Note that p10 says the blue diamond may also be worn, by itself, on the tan shirt, contrary to another popular misconception that says it cannot be so worn.

 

Finally, page 12-5 of the 2005 edition of the Cub Scout Leader Book (33221C) says both rank badges are available and the one that is awarded is a personal preference (but limited to those boys who did not earn the Tiger Cub rank, which would include boys who entered Cubs as second graders, as LDS boys do).

 

I would be very interested to read the exact wording of anything you have in writing that says otherwise. If what you heard was instead spoken by someone, then I would very skeptical indeed, unless they can produce a written source.

[ScoutNut]

National has recently done a great job of updating the Cub end of their site. The information is under Uniforms in the Adult Leaders section of Cub Scouting -

 

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/uniform/webelos.html

 

 

[LongHaul]

Thanks for the link Scoutnut, I searched the National site last night but couldn't find this info. After you gave me the location I can see, by what is highlighted, that I failed to access Uniforms thru the Adult Leader link. Sometimes it's like a maze. Fgoodwin, the info relating to the two different books and who could still use the old book and when the cut offs were AND the reference to the Tan shirt becoming the official Webelos uniform and that the diamond patch was to be discontinued were on a printed sheet that was an addition to the training materials we obtained from National. There was a binder with training syllabus' and several loose sheets, this was one of them. I am trying to get my copy back from the trainer who has the packet. I remember the comments of our training team that this was just an attempt to force families to buy new shirts for Webelos. The loss rate Nationally at that time was reportedly 40% (Webelos that dropped from Scouting) and we all said National was just trying to get one more dip into the parents pockets.

     All said I stand corrected, based on the National Web site info that the Blue uniform is still acceptable as a choice. Can anyone tell me where the reference to which to wear is a family choice rather than a den decision? Again I was under the impression that the den was supposed to all be alike. Using the Webelos Colors to display activity pins as opposed to displaying them on the hat. I was told this was a den decision to help form den identity. Whether to wear the hat or not again den decision. These last things about colors/hats were verbal so I'm asking if anyone has a solid source for this info. Training is only as good as the material you are given, as a trainer I'd rather give no info than wrong info.

LongHaul

[fgoodwin]

LH: I apologize if my remarks were out of line; I didn't mean any of it personally.

 

Its just that as a trainer myself, I hear more than my share of "gospel" that turns out to be either false or simply outdated information. We all want what's best for the boys, and having properly trained, knowledgeable leaders goes a long way in that direction.

 

Check page 20 of the current Webelos HB for the reference that the shirt decision is up to the boy and his parents.

[LongHaul]

Fgoodwin,

Was not offended in any way by what you posted, I apologize if my post made you feel that. I don't take offense to what is posted even if it is directed at me, I figure it's the posters right to have an opinion. I agree with you however that too much "gospel" that turns out to be either false or simply outdated information. is being spread. When it is being spread by me then it's doubly wrong I and I want to be corrected. As a trainer I have a responsibility to deliver accurate and up to date information, on this issue I was out of date at best inaccurate at least. Every youth deserves a trained leader, every leader deserves quality training when they seek it.

LongHaul

 

[Vigil-Hiker]

I have the 2006 printing of the Webelos handbook (trying to look ahead for next year so I do not have to repeat something that is an elective this year and is a requirement next year).

 

Either uniform may be worn. I plan to have my son switch shirts after he has earned his Webelos badge. Having been in since Tigers, his shirt is full of patches. He is only has working on electives and Leave-no-Trace available to him now(earned all 4 ranks, Outdoor Activity award, Cub scout Conservation Award, and Religous Knot). At that point he will have been in same shirt for 2 1/2 years. He will be needing a larger shirt by then and I do not want to have to sew all that on again. (Yes, I sew on my son's patches, not my wife or tailor. Have a few jealous moms in my pack on this point.)

 

I have already picked up an "experienced" tan shirt and pants for outdoor activities for my son. Even managed to get a Red Wool Jac-Shirt for him ~ $60 on eBay.

[LongHaul]

fgoodwin,

Presented Baloo training yeaterday and was able to speak with the person who has the Webelos Leader Specific materials. I was told all the loose sheets have been thrown out (including the handout originals *&^%$)and all that remains is the Webelos Leader section of the sylabus. So I can't substanciate my claim sorry.

LongHaul