Den Leader Knot requirement question

[jdtaber]

I have a very small den in a small pack. I don't have an asst. den leader, but do meet with the Asst.Cubmaster as to planning of the Bear den meetings (his son is in my den). Does this meet the requirement for meeting with an asst. for planning sessions? Another version of the requirements says that meeting with the ADL or other adult for planning meets the requirements.

[clydesdale115]

From what I understand, requirements # 4 and # 10 of the Den Leader Award specifically refer to having an ADL. # 4 is to have an ADL who meets with your den, and # 10 is to hold planning sessions with your ADL. In the absence of an ADL, could you get your five (5) requirements from the other choices? You have to "do 5 of the following 10." The final approval for the award is by your Pack CC or CM, so maybe you can ask for their take on it.

clydesdale115

 

[Oak Tree]

You can see the official requirements here: http://www.scouting.org/forms/34169/51.pdf

 

They specifically say "assistant den leader". Now, you may decide that you do, in practice, have a de facto assistant den leader who just happens to be filling another official role as well. It's not like there are police watching over these knots - our council will just sell you one. It's more of an 'On my honor' kind of thing. I would say that technically you are not meeting the requirement. My pack's always had an assistant den leader per den, even when we only had three boys in a den. It's usually not too hard to get a parent to fill that role, given that the duties can be pretty minimal.

 

But it also shouldn't be hard to do five of the other requirements.

 

Oak Tree

[vmpost]

Yikes! They will just sell you one?!?! We have "Knot Police" here. Our DE accepts the application and the District Committee verifies EVERYTHING you put down! Training records are checked scrupulously, CC's are contacted, charters are reviewed, ... The Knot Police do their job.

[jdtaber]

I won't have any trouble getting the 5 requirements done, but this may be a question for other small dens. 4 out of 5 of the parents in my den already have a "job" as a leader or committee menber, the 5th was ADL last year, but her new job prevents her from doing it this year. So, there really isn't another person available. The Cubmaster(my husband) and asst.Cubmaster are my de facto ADLs this year.

[cubbingcarol]

My ADL is my best friend from my work place. He has no children in the pack. He just wanted to volunteer his time (or shut me up one or the other ). Anyway, my point is, look for others to fill in, not just parents. How about grandparents?

 

Carol

[acco40]

Your Scout shop should "just sell you one." However, they should also, "scrupulously" check everthing out. Why do both? For example, I earned my knots and have multiple shirts. I should be able to purchase twenty seven district award of merit knots for my twenty seven shirts (okay, I exaggerate just a little) if I wish.

[vmpost]

acco40,

 

Yes, they will & do sell me one for an additional shirt if I have already earned it, but they will NOT "just sell me one" so I can "look good", I want it, or whatever. That is what I meant. But then, they have already checked me out and have a record of me earning it, so it isn't "just selling me one" is it? Sorry if I misunderstood what Oaktree was saying.

[Oak Tree]

No, you didn't misunderstand me. Our council store will just sell you a knot. They keep them behind the counter, so you have to ask for them, but they do not do any sort of check of your credentials.

 

Even if they did check, someone who was willing to lie could pretty easily qualify for the knot anyway. Our council training records are not organized, so they couldn't check that, either. But I guess if we had really rigorous knot police, as vmpost does, it could get pretty hard to slide through. Which I'd be fine with.

 

It does make it easier to pick up the knot once you've earned it, though. No paperwork, no trying to figure out who to turn it in to, etc.

 

I'm sure if people really wanted the knots, they could find ways to buy them. I see a Tiger leader knot for sale on eBay right now.

 

Oak Tree

[woody01]

These knot req. need some work. Tiger knot For exp. our former

District Exc. found the need to have 6 packs in a small

town pop. aprrox. 5,000 people. This makes it very tuff

to get 5 tigers during req. The fact is that he looked

better because he had more units under him, no matter

what the size of each unit was.

[jdtaber]

To answer a previous post, the grandparents are really not available to help as ADL in my small den (many live out-of-town, the rest passed away, ill, and/or too busy). I will be asking the asst. CM to register this fall as the ADL for our den. He is essentially the ADL now. The sons of the CM and Asst.CM will age out the same year, so the solution is to get a Tiger or Wolf dad to take over the Asst. CM in the fall. I see the easy solution here, getting it done is the sticky part.