Couples who are both Scout Leaders

[mbscoutmom]

Does it ever work to have a couple both active as scout leaders at the same time? My husband and I think it makes it much harder on us that both of us are leaders, especially since both of us do more than we should. We just lost two leaders who had been very active and then dropped out, and this has really hurt the pack. Now a new couple has volunteered to take on a lot of responsibilities, and I'm wondering if I (as CC) should discourage them. Also wondering HOW to discourage them from taking on too many responsibilities without making them think I don't want their help.

[FScouter]

Being married doesn't make more Scouting work. Assuming multiple positions makes more work. BSA recommends one person - one position.

[cubbingcarol]

I am currently registered as the Bear leader but also am the Tiger leader since no one else wanted to. My husband is the Cubmaster and is leading the WebII den because no one else wanted to. We both serve on several internal committees (B&G, Angel Tree, food drive, etc.). Yes it is stressful at times but I love it. We have a connection and bond that is very strong. We always have something to talk about (as if 4 of our own kids isn't enough) and we know we can fall back on each other if we need to. Sometimes I remind him that he needs to cut back on Scout time. And he is pretty good about doing that. We both work full time jobs (although mine is only about 30-32 hours a week). Scouting is not just a passing phase with us. It is something we both deeply believe in and we feel we can give 100% to it as well as our marriage and children. (We just celebrated 10 years of mostly blissful marriage;))

 

I wouldn't change a thing! Except to make myself rich and not have to work at all, but then I would just find something else to bit#@ about!

Carol

 

[Lisabob]

My husband and I did this for a while. He was a den leader while I wore a variety of other hats. On one hand, we're both glad that we were involved with our son and his friends, and I like to think we did a good job. Also it was easy to coordinate activities since I knew I'd see him every day at the dinner table to discuss upcoming plans.

 

On the other hand...we got to a point where we felt like all we ever talked about with each other was scouting. And we were both getting kind of burned out.

 

Also we were both deeply involved in keeping the pack going. Negative sides to this were that when our son crossed over the pack lost two people, not one, and if someone didn't care for the way one of us was doing things, it might have been difficult to institute change. Not that I think this was a problem in our situation, but I can imagine some cases where it could be. I know one pack where the husband was CM and his wife was CC, and when the CM acted in some particularly egregious ways and needed to be removed, it put them (and the rest of the leaders) in a pretty awkward position.

 

I would NOT discourage both parents from being involved though. Seems like units are perpetually short of willing, able volunteers so why turn them away? As with any new volunteers though, I'd encourage them to test the waters and start small to see what they enjoy and what works best for them.

 

Lisa'bob

[clydesdale115]

My husband started out as the Tiger Den Leader - I was just a "mom" to begin with. But I definitely did a lot of prep for our meetings: emails, scheduling, supplies, den newsletter. I had more time to devote to it than he did, so it worked for us.

But the next year, when our boys were Wolves, I decided that if I'm going to do all this work for the den, I'm going to register as the ADL! We've been going strong - great den, dedicated and involved parents.

We are not alone as a husband/wife team. In our Pack, we have 4 husband/wife den leader teams. We have never run into a problem that if one of us is out, that means BOTH of us are out. It also makes it SO much easier to plan the meetings, as we don't have to call or meet with someone else (ADL) about doing this part or that part of the meeting.

He and I have divided responsibilities for the den meetings: I do opening, he does pledge/roll, he does an activity, I do crafts, I do Character Connection at the end, he does closing.

I agree with cubbingcarol - Scouting is very important to us as a family and has become an important part of our lives. We schedule ourselves around Cub Scouts. Maybe we do take on more than we should, but "the Cub Scout helps the Pack go."

We actually had a couple of (uninformed) committee members say that it was against BSA rules to have husband/wife teams. I suspect half the Packs in the country would suffer if that was the case! Our DE said some balk at having husband/wife teams such as CC/CM or CC/Treasurer, as some might question the propriety. But to me, a Scout is Trustworthy - the end.

clydesdale115

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Have to agree with FScouter. One person - one job. But we all know it can't always be that way.

 

Fortunately for my wife and I, who have both been registered leaders for 6 years now, we have always had the opportunity to only wear one hat each. However, that did not stop my wife from telling me how I should wear my hat, if you get my meaning. I never claimed to be the greatest CC or CM but I always do my best and know the boundries of the positions. My wife is far less diplomatic than I am and even less patient. She often felt that I should share her more direct style rather than use mine. Needless to say that during trying times in the Pack which I was charged with handling, it caused many rifts between us because she felt that I wasn't handling it appropriately.

 

She has since assumed a committee position and our conversations that surround scouting now rarely tread on delicate issues. They moreso surround the fact that I am often neck deep in scouting responsibilities and she feels that I should back off. Right now, she is trying to argue that I should step away all together when my youngest graduates Webelos. That time is two years from now but she knows me well enough that she has to start pushing that issue now!

 

But at least she understands what my responsibilities are. If she were not involved in scouting with me, she might just see scouting as another thing that takes me away from her.

[frank10]

I'm a fan of one family one position. We all know that in the end "one job" never stays that way, so if you start with a family team there is a built in back up to help cary the load.

[Shawno]

Mistake me if I'm wrong, but isnt married couples/dl&adl a no-no? Im thinking about the child protection thing. Im a wolf dl, wife is committee. She helps me out, but I make sure there is at least 1 other parent that stays. Not a problem since I also am tiger dl(not by choice)

Am I wrong about this?

 

Shawn

[MarkS]

Shawn brings up a good point. Having a couple as leaders does present a potential for conflict of interest when it comes to two-deep leadership. This is most often going to occur when they are a den leader and an assistent den leader in the same den. It could also happen at outdoor activities and camping. The couple would serve their own best interests and that of their unit by avoiding situations that make them the only two adults present.

 

However, they both don't need to be registered leaders to be the only two adults present. It doesn't matter if one, the other, or both are registered leaders. Situations where a couple is your only source of two deep leadership should be avoided.

 

Other than this avoidable scenario, I don't see a problem with a couple providing leadership.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[resqman]

We have several couples in our Pack.

 

The CM and the treasurer are husband and wife. She also has been a den leader and program committee chair. Both are very dedicated individuals who do an excellent job.

 

We have a den where the husband & wife tag team as a single den leader but also have an asst den leader. This way they always have at least two leaders.

 

We have several others couples where the wife is not offically registered but attends almost all meetings/outings and are very supportive of the program.

[mbscoutmom]

My biggest concern is that when you have a couple each doing an important job in the pack, and they both quit, then you have two vacancies at once.

 

Our CM had to drop out for reasons beyond his control. His son also dropped out because of problems at school, and so the mom, who was ADL, stopped coming to den meetings. She was also Advancement Chair. I am CC, and also DL. This mom, the ADL, was supposed to take turns with me running the den meetings. So, when she and the CM dropped out, I had no CM, no ADL, and no Advancement Chair. CC and DL was too much--now I'm CC, DL (with no assistant) and Advancement Chair! (We do have two ACMs who help with the CM duties.)

 

We're working on recruiting new leaders, but I'm wary of creating the same kind of situation we had before. Should I insist on one job-one person? How about one full-time job per family? (CC, CM, ACM, and DL are full-time; ADL and others are part-time.)

 

 

[MarkS]

This doesn't fix the problem mbscoutmom noted, but her situation did make me realize that chances are every unit will lose more than one leader at Blue & Gold.

 

Chances are most packs have a couple leaders who have boys in their 2nd Year Webelos den whether they're a couple or not. If you're worried about losing more than one leader at once, you need to develop transition plans in the fall rather than a month or two before your Blue & Gold banquet. It's almost a certainty every unit will lose more than one leader a year when their 2nd years graduate to a troop.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Lisabob]

Well no, I don't think you can rightfully insist on one job-one family. Who are you going to exclude? Mom? or Dad? If the pack we were part of had done this I'd have been royally cheesed off, either way. Besides, who are you (as an outsider to the family) to determine what this family can or can't handle? And you may be unwittingly inserting yourself into a contentious marital debate or power struggle here too. Do you really want to go there?

 

I know that's probably not what you meant at all. But, that's how it may be perceived.

 

OK, so what to do? Just like with ANY volunteers, start them out with smaller tasks and let them get their feet wet. Try hard...at least at first... to honor the one job per person idea. No point in overwhelming brand new volunteers anyway. Work hard at "shedding" some of your own roles until you are down to just one. Personally, I found that the more roles I took on, the harder it was to get others to step up - they just figured I'd do it, or that if they volunteered that they, too, would end up having to do way more than they really wanted to or had time for. I realized, eventually, that I was being a poor role model for other adults here! It was sometimes hard for me to relinquish certain jobs but if you're going to tell others to do it, you have to also.

 

So you have 4 openings from the sound of it (CM, CC or DL, ADL, Advancement Chair)

 

ADL and Advancement Chair are two jobs that are simple to do and you should be able to fill quickly. Get those off your plate.

 

If you already have 2 ACMs, can one of them step up to be the new CM? Have they been asked directly? As a new volunteer I might be leery of becoming CM right off the bat, but if an experienced person took that job I'd probably be more willing to serve as their ACM. So that makes filling vacancies less problematic both from your perspective (steady leadership) and theirs (new volunteers get to start small).

 

As for being CC and DL at the same time - I've done that too and as you know it is a tremendous workload, esp. since (as you know too) in the absence of a CM, the CC takes on that job too. Of the two, I think it is harder to find someone to be a good DL. So if you really enjoy being a DL and nobody else in your den is willing, then start looking for a new CC. But...to sell this job...you need to whittle it down to something mere mortals can handle. If it looks to the other parents like the CC ends up doing everything (which is what happened with our pack for a while) then it is easy to understand why nobody in their right mind would want to take that job from you.

 

This CC role might take a litte while to fill. Maybe one of the new volunteers would be a good candidate to serve as your assistant for a while so they can learn the ropes. Shedding other responsibilities that seemed to fall into your lap just because you're the CC and nobody else would do them is also difficult because, let's face it, nobody else would do them if you don't. Honestly that's the hardest thing I had to do because I HATED to see things go off less than perfectly due to lack of adult participation.

 

Once I really understood this though and I let some things go undone, and people began to pipe up (well why didn't this or that get done?) I found myself in a position to recruit more people, more easily. "Hey, I agree, this needs to be done. Would you be willing to handle this for next month's meeting? Here's what this would require, it's actually pretty simple." It worked. I was surprised at first. It kept working. Now the pack is in a spot where they've got a bunch of leaders. I'm very happy about that.

 

(In fact,the only position they continue to have a hard time filling is the CC - but all those "extra" tasks that the CC used to do have been farmed out to new volunteers so this isn't nearly as big a hole as it might have been. They're working on it though.)

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

 

[MarkS]

Heck, right now I'm our 2nd Year WL (that's what I'm registered as), acting CC (because our CC resigned at the end of October), acting assistent pack meeting planner (because our CM is a great master of ceremonies but planning and organizing are not his strengths, therefore we ask our CC to help with this--not really a problem if the CC is only the CC), acting advancement chair (because I'm good with software and my den earns a lot of awards), and acting pack trainer (because I'm the only leader who's taken any training besides basic training).

 

My wife is an MC. So my unit needs a new CC and new MC by the time they recharter.

 

I haven't been directly involved in recruiting because I am leaving the unit in 29 days and felt that the existing leaders should recruit who they feel they can work with, but I've been nagging them for the last 60 days to get it done. Either it will or they won't be able to recharter when their deadline arrives in 50 days. I hope they're reading this.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[ScoutNut]

My husband & I have been Scout leaders together, in GSUSA & BSA, for 14 years now. We have volunteered with our kids den/troop. We have volunteered at the Pack, Troop, District, Service Unit, & Council level. There have been some things that I have been involved in that he hasn't. Likewise, there have been some projects that were his alone. There have been times that I felt he should let go of some things & times he has felt the same of me. However, we are still going strong, with my son planning on continuing on as an adult volunteer when he turns 18. My daughter is the only one who has taken a hiatus from scouting, & she is currently a lifetime GSUSA member who is very involved in service clubs at her university.

 

We love Scouting & think it is the best youth program around for both boys & girls.

 

I would not put any limitations on your married volunteers. How involved a family is & if they really have the time to devote to being a volunteer is not YOUR decision to make. That decision is theirs alone.

 

If you have a problem with leaders leaving, then you need to make sure you have enough trained leaders available to fill in when needed.

 

BTW - Where ever did you get the idea that an Assistant Den Leader was a part time position????

 

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)