evmori Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 If we're gonna say this song should be not be used because it borders on swearing or bring rude, then we shouldn't be letting Scouts or adult leaders say "Oh my God!" or we should stop letting Scouts do the "Pink Panzi Motorcycle Gang" skit because it encourages beating people up! The list could be endless! Or we could do nothing about the song & concentrate more on the really important stuff in Scouting & I'd bet the kids would realize the song is just in jest! And BTW, I wouldn't watch South Park! It is foul, vulgar & crude! Not fit for man or beast! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Sorry, I don't know that skit. I'll take your word for it though, that it might be inappropriate. Ed, I'm not arguing for political correctness here. I agree with you that one could go overboard in that direction. But if people in the unit find something offensive (and if you go back and follow the thread, you'll find the original poster did say some people in the unit are uncomfortable with the message this song sends) then they have every right to talk about the issue and perhaps, change things. Suggesting that this is a waste of time, as you have, strikes me as being a bit arrogant. If it bugs them then they should deal with it; it's their unit. You said that perhaps they should do nothing about this song and instead focus on what matters. My point: why can't they do both? This is hardly an either/or proposition. Lisa'bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubleader6 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I'm new here and don't want to start trouble, but Ed why do you seem to be so harsh about this, she's just bringing up one thing out of several that she has to deal with. Maybe she feels good about other things, but wanted "outside" thoughts on this, some things can be "set in stone" in one Pack, but so different from another. I thought getting thoughts from others outside your Pack are Troop was why we were here. Reactions like yours make it so people like me are too shy to ask questions.....will my questions seem to silly to you?? I've been thinking of asking some questions myself, now I wonder....when I do, will you say I need to focus on more important things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 CL6, Please don't let folks' possible reactions keep you from posting your questions and comments. There are many times that my thinking has been changed by even the most vile of forum participants. By the way... Shhhh.... Come closer... Let me whisper a secret to you... Ed is really as soft and cuddly as teddy bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 What message does it send? We don't like long winded announcements! Harsh! I just think there are more important things to concentrate on. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Ed, if you feel it is worth discussing then I suggest you go back and look through the thread again. There are several people (myself included) who express the view that the lyrics of the original post send a variety of unwelcome messages to kids. You need not agree but if you want to discuss further, I think it would be helpful for you to see the other side of the discussion. On the other hand, if you don't think this is worth further discussion then let me suggest you ignore this thread. That's one of the nice things about a forum like this. You don't have to read or respond to anything that doesn't interest you. Peronally I find that preferable to spending one's time telling everybody else that they're wasting their time. Lisa'bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Welcome to the group, Cubleader6. I hope you will post your questions, comments, thoughts, etc.. Personally I've found the forum to be a great place to bounce ideas, receive feedback, and learn new things. Also I think Semper's right about Ed... Lisa'bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 You weren't suppose to tell, Semper The words in the original post are mild and the whole point of the song is "Keep It Short & Sweet". Anything else is something read into the song by someone else. Like I said, there are way more important things in Scouting than worrying if this song offends someone. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubmaster Randy Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Are all forms of this song innappropriate? probably not. Some forms of this song may be appropriate for Boy scouts and maybe some cubs. Others are definetly not. You need to do what is in the best interest of the boys. I am not PC, but do respect the rights of others. If it is causing issues then it should be addressed. I like South park, but turn it off if my chidren come downstairs while I am watching it. Do my children (7 and 9yo) know what South Park is, yes. why, because they watched it a friends house. That led to a discussion about the show and why the actions of the boys were inappropriate. All we can do is instill in them with the values of the scout oath and law....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndaigler Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 It's pretty hard to argue that the song's point is to remind the Adult to keep announcements short when the song itself is invariably longer than the original announcement. I doubt many adult leaders need the group acting as instructor. Wouldn't a polite word discretely spoken serve the purpose better and model the preferred behavior? Secondly, I think the original point still holds. Whatever the intent of the song - it intrinsically teaches several things that not all of us want to teach. I agree, it's just a silly song -- so why try to keep it, if it's not helping you accomplish what you're trying to accomplish with your Cubs? If it doesn't bother the adults and doesn't disrupt the meetings, keep it. Enjoy. If it troubles adults and slows down a meeting that people are always asking you to speed up, then get rid of it. jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 "What message does it send? We don't like long winded announcements!" What it says is "We don't care what you have to say and don't want to hear it, so shut up." It's simply rude to say that to someone that wants to talk to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubleader6 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 jd: I agree with you 100%, it's fine if everyone is taking it all in good fun, if not, maybe talk to those who don't like it and if it upsets them that much.....find another version. FScouter: I see what you mean, but in our Pack, we don't do it as an "I don't want to hear you" type of thing, for us it's just a song that we sing when "set off" by a certian word. If we don't want them to sing it,, we don't use that word. Otherwise we make a point to be sure they notice that we've said it. We DO keep our Announcements short and sweet and let the newsletter speak for itself for the parents....when we have something to tell the kids at a pack meeting, we involve them.....so when we're talking about an upcoming event, we'll start by saying for example: "Resident Camp! Who here has been to Resident Camp??" Then we let them jump up raising their hands, yelling "ooh, ooh, I have!" And we go on from there...."who can tell us what we do at camp?" That works for us, then they actually ENJOY announcements :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fgoodwin Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 My personal feeling as a former CC, TDL, WDL and ACM of two different Cub Scout Packs: I don't have a problem with the song, as long as the boys don't go overboard with it (I've never heard them do more than one verse, and I doubt if most boys know more than the first verse anyway, unless taught more by an adult), and as long as they don't continually break out in the song everytime the word "announcement" is spoken. Once is enough (hopefully) for the adults to get the message. WRT rudeness vs. courtesy: how courteous is a Scouter being to the boys when he or she drones on and on with their pet announcement? I've heard popcorn kernels and FOSs go for 10-15 minutes about popcorn or money, when 2-3 minutes (or less) with a reference to a printed hand-out would've covered it nicely. Is that an excuse for Cubs to return the behaviour with rudeness of their own? Of course not, but as adults, we should be better able to control our own behaviour, understand how our behaviour affects the boys, and deal with the boys' reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herms Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I posted the version the boys sing (mostly to me!) on the 2nd page of the thread. I don't find it offensive at all. Heck I originally taught it to a group of Webelos six years ago! I can't tell you how many pack meetings (the majority) that I have been to where the boys just sit there an LISTEN. A pack meeting is about showing and doing. Showing off the things they have accomplished during the month and doing something. Songs are a great way to get the boys INVOLVED in the meeting, but like everything else if you tell them they have to do something, many times they will groan and give a half-hearted attempt, but if it is their idea they will jump right in. Lastly, even though these boys are only 6-11 give them a little credit for knowing that it is just a fun song. My boys (and I really think of them all as "my" boys) sing the song at me all the time, but are still respectful the rest of the time. PS - One of the boys from that first Webelo group just got his Eagle last year and requested that I read the "Eagle Charge" at his Court of Honor.(This message has been edited by Herms) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 "What message does it send? We don't like long winded announcements!" What it says is "We don't care what you have to say and don't want to hear it, so shut up." It's simply rude to say that to someone that wants to talk to you. Guess it's all in the interpretation. And now singing a song at a Pack meeting is rude! That's it! No more fun in Cub Scouts! Everything from now on will be serious and any type of humor will not be tolerated! Where will it end! Good grief! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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