Lisabob Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 And I wouldn't have a problem with this latest version of the song either. Here's what I don't care for in the original poster's version though: "We have no use for your bull now" is close enough to encouraging swearing to be out of bounds in my book, especially for little kids. It would be better (in my view anyway) if we were talking about older kids where ambiguity is better understood. But I can just imagine some 6 or 7 yr. old not understanding why it is ok to say "your bull..." and not "your bull---t" or when even the first one is unacceptable. Suppose that some cub scout informs his teacher that he "has no use for her bull". You can bet the boy's parents will be hearing from that teacher! So why encourage it at a pack meeting then? "You're so boring!" That's a different message than "they're [announcements] so boring!" Generally I'm not excited about teaching kids that it is ok, funny even, to call people names. Calling someone boring isn't that awful I suppose but it is still rude. If it were a pack that my son were in, yes, I would gently nudge people toward changing the lyrics that the original poster included. Personally I think there's a big difference between being "pc" and teaching politeness and respect for others. Not everyone will agree but hey, that's my opinion. Lisa'bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrentAllen Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Actually, Announcements ARE part of the Pack meeting, under Closing (Announcements, Closing ceremony). Check page 34-37 of the Cub Scout Leader Book, under Pack Meeting Planning Sheet. That being said, I keep them to an absolute minimum. Our Pack sings the short version, and only once this year because of my use of the A word. Others who go before the group might be in for a surprise! If you want to change the words, I would suggest coming up with another fun version, instead of just telling the Scouts they can't sing that anymore. The fact that the song has survived for 7 years at the Pack doesn't mean the adults are passing it down. The boys usually teach it to each other, so each new group of Tigers pick it up from the other dens. Brent Allen Cubmaster, Pack 494 I used to be a Fox, and a good old Fox too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I've used it as an ACM, as a Cub CC, and as a CM/CC in a boy scout troop. I know a Scout camp reservation staff that uses it whenever the PD uses the dreaded A word. Announcements, Announcements, Announce....ments! What a horrible way to die, What a horrible way to die, Being bored to tears by a grown-up leader, What a horrible way to die. We skipped the 2d verse in Cubbing, but use it in the Troop. Have you ever seen a Windbag, a Windbag, a Windbag? Have you ever seen a Windbag, oh there's one right there... He blows this way and that way and that way and this way, Oh, Have you ever seen a Windbag, oh, he's up right now. Words of wisdom, words of wisdom, coming now, coming now... Boring words of wisdom, boring words of wisdom, Time to sleep, time to sleep. Keeping it simple, making it fun, leaving the public service messages to some other forum than a Pack meeting helps! John A Good Old Owl Too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fgoodwin Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Brent, I stand corrected and I appreciate you pointing that out. I note that announcements come at the END of the Pack Meeting, not in the middle, and the Leader Book (page 24-11) emphasizes that announcements should be brief, to the point, and in writing. They should not be long and drawn out, which is far too often the case. As a UC, this is consistently my biggest concern about my Packs -- they spend far too much time on announcements and far too little having the boys do fun stuff like skits, jokes and songs. Thanx again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubmaster Randy Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Yes announements should be brief. Although I've seen a pack make a game out of announcements. The persons making the announcments used props and the cub scouts guessed what the announcment was going to be when the announcer came out. They seemed to enjoy it. I'm not sure if the parents got the information other than it was an event coming up. They have another system for the actual dissemanation of information. Instead of long anouncements , Handouts, phone tree or an email system for messages should be utilized instead. Half the time the parents are not paying attention to the announcments anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrentAllen Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I try to avoid what I call "sit-n-listens" at our Pack meetings. By that, I mean any time where the boys just sit and listen to an adult go on and on about something that should be discussed with the parents. Not all announcements fall under that term - exciting events coming up, like PWD or a camping trip, the boys like to hear a brief update about those. But once the information departs from an exciting announcement to a check list for the parents, it becomes a "sit-n-listen", which the boys lose interest in pretty quickly. Just my .02 worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Brent and Randy, I agree. For Cubs, "announcements" should be more like "headlines", just enough to whet the appetite and for parents to realize that something's up. In our troop, we do "News Flashes". These are like the headline plus the lead paragraph. The occasional slip up use of the "A" word and the resulting burst of song reminds everyone to keep it short 'n sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolo Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I find the words to most of these songs rude (A Scout is cheerful), crude (A Scout is kind) and impolite (A Scout is friendly). When Scouters attend meetings, training, etc., and there are always announcements at our meetings, do we start singing? No. Why should we encourage the boys to do this? I find, not only in Scouting, but in my workplace, that most announcements are valuable; leaders should just be encouraged to not let them drag on. Better yet, have someone drag them off the stage with a walking cane. -bolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I've always found this song to be rude, and violates the 5th point of the Scout Law.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaji Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Ah, this brings back memories of my cub scout days. Personally, I find nothing wrong with it if you just use the first verse (anything more and it just gets too long anyway). Part of the trick is that you stress to the cubs when it's appropriate and when it's not. My cubmaster made a game of it with the boys, and in so doing he actually got them to pay attention, if for no other reason than to listen out for "the word" so that they could burst out singing. It was clear to everyone that it was a regular part of the pack meeting and the way they were run, and it was a way of engaging the boys in a part of the meeting where they'd otherwise sit bored and stare at the front. Now if you DON'T teach them when it's appropriate to do it and when not to, that's a different matter entirely. Presentation is everything here. And as to the initial post I do agree, if the lyrics are offensive or inappropriate than they DO need changing. If they're not though, then it's important that the appropriate context is established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I believe the intent behind the song is to send a message that long winded announcements from well meaning adults are often not appreciated by boys. By making the song long, it is a reminder to keep the announcments short and sweet as boys are there to have fun. I recall a couple of years ago when my son was trying to recruit a buddy and brought him along to camporee. He had told him how much fun the camporee campfire program had been the year before. He really emphasized it. What happened? The OA called out about 75 people and then they did a few run ons in between all of the district adults getting up and making announcements for everything under the sun and thanking various people who had worked on the camporee. It was deathly boring. Perhaps if they had sang the song each time one of these windbags got up, they would have gotten the idea to cut it short and let the boys do a real campfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazon Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I learned the song when on camp staff many many years ago, and I think that's how it makes it way into the units. My boy's don't know the song well enough to use it in pack meetings, but I'm always careful to use other words, just to be safe: "Here's some things to know..." "Important Information..." etc. I think the song, when sung in fun, is okay and not discourteous but it can get out of control. We staff members probably added 10 verses to the original song, and it could really drag out. The Program Director was very good at not saying the dreaded A word. The archery directory was an expert of tricking the PD into saying it. My favorite was when the Archery Directory asked the PD to remind everyone to bring "an ounce of mint" to the range to use to flavor his tea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubleader6 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Wow, I thought what we sang was harsh, we don't mention death at all,ours has so many verses, most of the time we leave some out... Ours is Announcements, Announcements,Announcements Cause when you're up, you're up and when you're down your down and when you're only half way up, you're neither up or down (all while doing the motions, stand up, sit, then "stoop") Announcements, Announcements,Announcements (then we go on to all the junk like....) Row, Row, Row your boat gentely down the stream, ha ha fooled you, I'm a submarine Announcements, Announcements,Announcements Cause when you're up, you're up and when you're down your down and when you're only half way up, you're neither up or down Announcements, Announcements,Announcements Here comes Peter cotton tail, hoppin' down the bunny trail, BOOM Announcements, Announcements,Announcements Cause when you're up, you're up and when you're down your down and when you're only half way up, you're neither up or down Announcements, Announcements,Announcements Humpy Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, all the kinds horses and all the kings men, PUSHED HIM OUT THE WINDOW, THE 2ND STORY WINDOW Announcements, Announcements,Announcements Cause when you're up, you're up and when you're down your down and when you're only half way up, you're neither up or down Announcements, Announcements,Announcements Swing low, sweet chariot...SCRAPE ETC, ETC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 All this over a song! No wonder there are so many problems! It's just a song, people! It's not meant to be offensive! It's called satire. If we would spend this much time on helping boys make ethical decisions we would have excellent young leaders! This song has nothing to do with ethics. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Oh C'mon now Ed. While I can agree that this song is not the end-all of teaching ethical behavior, I still think it is worth discussion. We're talking about teaching cub scouts that it is ok to border on swearing and that insulting or being rude to people (you're so boring) is funny. Don't you think that these kids learn ethics and respect and manners from actions (and songs they're taught by the adults leading them) just as much, if not more than, from formal lessons? Your argument, logically extended, would mean it is also ok to let little kids watch shows like South Park because hey, it's just entertainment. (Now I happen to like South Park but I wouldn't let my child watch it!) As for your comment that people should spend as much time "helping boys make ethical decisions," what makes you think we don't? Whatever it is that makes you think that, I'd wager you're wrong in the vast majority of instances of people in this forum. We're here precisely because we care a great deal about the development of these kids. Lisa'bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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