winter camping training for Webelos

[Lisabob]

There's a great thread in the camping section (under equipment reviews) about keeping warm while camping in winter. I decided to spin off into the cub forum because cross-over time is coming up for a lot of webelos II boys, many of whom probably have no experience with winter camping. What's one of the first things they'll do with their new troop?...Go winter camping!

 

Last year when my son crossed over (late February) he went camping a week later. Temps were in the single digits. He had no idea how to stay warm and neither he nor I knew enough about proper gear. He froze, was miserable, never wanted to do it again. NOT a good first boy scout experience! In fact a couple of boys who crossed over with him quit immediately after that campout - what a shame.

 

So, in hindsight, I wish I had set up a webelos den meeting (or two) where some scouts and leaders from the troop had come and taught the webelos & parents a little bit about winter camping, BEFORE cross-over time. Especially, I'd have asked them to bring examples of gear - what to look for, what to avoid, etc..

 

Webelos Den Leaders, although you may not be camping with your cub scouts, I really encourage you to share the info in the related thread with your den's parents and boys (maybe in a condensed version), and to talk about this with the troops that your boys will be joining.

 

Lisa'bob

[scoutldr]

Maybe there was a reason that Webs used to cross over in late spring. We seem to be pushing it earlier and earlier. I think it is irresponsible for a troop to take brand new scouts winter camping, which in some areas, would be considered "high adventure" needing advanced camping skills. Your son's experience should not have happened.

[Lisabob]

Scoutldr, I couldn't agree more that the way things actually worked out was not desirable at all.

 

The idea of pushing cross over back to late spring is something the other WDL and I seriously considered, but for a variety of reasons (worthy of their own thread) we decided not to go that route. Fact is, nearly all packs/troops in my area do their cross-overs in Feb or early March, and the weather can be counted on to be lousy through mid-late April. We've even had snow in mid-late May some years. Rather than telling the boys they can't go on the first two or three campouts with their new troop, I'd prefer to teach them how to prepare so that they can have a successful and fun experience.

 

On the other hand, I've heard from some adults that "after the first time, the boys will figure out pretty quickly what they need for winter camping." This is not a view I support at all because, while it may be true for some boys, others will simply "figure out" that they don't like winter camping, and they just won't go next time or even worse, they'll quit scouts after their first really lousy camping experience.

 

Although I don't think my son's troop did a particularly good job of training the new scouts to prep. for winter camping after cross-over last year (something we've been working to improve this year), even if they had a better training effort, as a parent it still would've been helpful to me to have gotten some of the info a little earlier on. For example: my son lacked the preferred type of long underwear and had only cotton waffle weave stuff - fine for playing in the snow for a couple hours, but poor for camping. After cross-over we had about 3 days prior to his first campout in which to try and find suitable long underwear and in late Feb., the stores weren't carrying much of that stuff any more. If I'd known in mid January that he needed those, I could've found them in the stores or ordered on line, or arranged to borrow a pair from someone, etc.. Same with appropriate sleeping bags and other gear.

 

Given the realities on the ground then, and depending on your location, weather, troop camping plans, etc., my point is that many of us need to think a little further ahead and do some training with our W II scouts BEFORE they cross over. I really wish I had done so when I was still a WDL at this time last year. Maybe this would be a good topic for a den chief to cover with the boys, for those who have one. At the same time, I'd have invited an ASM to come and talk separately with the parents so s/he could have answered questions about cost, etc. that a boy might be less equipped to answer.

 

Lisa'bob

[kenk]

As a Webelos Den Leader whose boys will be crossing over this coming March, I wholeheartedly agree that a winter (or cold-weather) campout should NOT be the boys first camping experience as a Boy Scout. Cold weather camping can be a lot of fun, but if not prepared or dressed correctly it can be dangerous. Even then, it can be uncomfortable at times.

 

I do wonder why the packs are pusing the cross-overs so early. Because of local issues we had to move ours from February to March, and I've found this to be a great thing. The boys have already selected the troop they want to join and we have had several joint activities with the troop (bowling, etc) to let the boys get to know each other.

 

I'm actually in a similar, but different, situation. The troop that my boys are joining is planning a short urban backpacking trip in late March. It sounds like a pretty cool activity where the boys will take a training into the big city, backpack about a mile to another station, take a train (or bus?) to the state border, and then backpack about two miles to the camp site. The plan is for them to sleep under tarps instead of tents.

 

Although this sounds like a lot of fun, I am worried that it is not appropriate for the new Scouts' very first campout. When I told the boys about the activity (I was very carefull to present it as a positive cool activity) they were really negative about it. The parents weren't happy either.

 

None of the boys have backpacks and the parents are not too happy about buying packs for 5th graders who are growing rapidly. Most, if not all, of the boys have never camped without a parent in the tent. Also the longest hike we've ever taken was 3 miles with only daypacks last fall.

 

I KNOW they'll enjoy backpacking eventually (soon?), but they need some time to grow into Boy Scout camping.

 

I'm asking the Scoutmaster to consider having the boys participate wearing only daypacks (outdoor essentials plus), and have a parent drive the rest of their gear & tents to the camp site for this activity.

 

Ken K.

[johndaigler]

Lisabob, I sympathize. And thanks for the heads up - you've given me a year to prepare for this pothole.

 

But isn't this is a Troop issue, more than a W2 issue? It's not that your W2's need to be better prepared to join the troop, their new Troop needs to be more alert to the situation, and more careful with its NSP.

 

Still, maybe a good late-fall bridging activity WOULD be an equipment demonstration(I'd require parents).

 

Camping/Hiking equipment make great Christmas presents!

 

jd

 

BTW, I whole-heartedly agree with your feelings about, "after the first time, the boys will figure out pretty quickly what they need for winter camping."!!!! A sink or swim attitude toward winter camping is dangerous and worth getting angry!

[Lisabob]

jd says: A sink or swim attitude toward winter camping is dangerous and worth getting angry!

 

Yeah, well "momma bear" has emerged once or twice (or more) in reference to this issue, believe me.

 

jd, I don't have any intention of letting a troop off the hook for failing to prepare their new scouts for winter camping. Among other things, I think THE TROOP should've been pushing to come to one of my webelos den meetings to do this. After all, the troop leaders surely knew that winter camping requires special preparations and they should've considered that their soon-to-be new scouts would need some training. So they could've been more pro-active here too and as the more knowledgable party (I don't know any cub packs who do winter camping - with good reason), perhaps the bulk of the responsibility does belong to the troop.

 

However, I really see this as BOTH a troop AND a W2 issue, given that (where I live at least, and unless global warming speeds way up) it is inevitable that the first couple of camp outs after the boys cross over will be cold weather camp outs. After all, one of the major purposes of the webelos program is to help prepare the boys for boy scouting, right? As a WDL, I tried to do whatever I could to live up to that goal and in hindsight, this is one fairly simple thing that I neglected due to my own lack of experience with winter camping.

 

Another way to approach this is to think about the webelos-scout transition program. Getting W2 boys ready for their first troop campout seems like a natural opportunity to make the transition smoother and build the relationship between the troop and pack.

 

So I don't see this so much as a pothole, as an opportunity that could be beneficial to the troop, the pack, the leaders, the parents, the boys - everybody.

 

Lisa'bob

[johndaigler]

Absolutely!

 

G2SS lists winter camping as age-appropriate for Boy Scouts and older. I like the idea of using this pothole to build a better bridge, but your W2's aren't supposed to have winter camping experiences. The Troop leaders should know that and plan/train accordingly.

 

But, I guess, if we're going to cross them over during the winter, and we live north of the Mason-Dixon Line, we probably need to help with the first few preparatory steps for our boys.

 

jd

[funscout]

Lisabob,

 

Excellent idea to get Webelos 2 leaders thinking about cold weather camping training. When my older son was a Web.2, we asked a Boy Scout leader to come to one of our den meetings to teach the boys about cold weather camping. This definitely helped make my son's first boy scout camp out in March (Chilly still in Illinois)a success. Boys who had come from a different Pack did not fare as well. Our troop always does an informational meeting about cold weather camping before the new scouts camp, but this information is easier for young boys to take in if it's in a small, familiar group, like a Webelos den meeting, rather than a new boy scout troop.

 

I, too, disagree with the "he'll learn for next time" thought when it pertains to cold weather activities. Last year, when my son and husband camped wtih their troop before Klondike Derby (snow, and 20 degree weather), my husband came back home to grab another one of our mummy bags to loan to a boy who hadn't planned well. There is no way we would have allowed that boy to sleep in a summer bag in that kind of weather, and he did learn a lesson, because he was a little embarrassed when he realized how unprepared he was. He had the right equipment for the next camp out!

[AnneinMpls]

Got another tip for taking younger folk winter camping.

So many of these 11 year olds are pretty short. A fullsize bag is too much space for them to warm up. Either use "childsize" cold-rated bags (but only if they'll be used often enough to make it worth the investment) or tuck the extra length of a fullsize bag under the feet. Less space for small bodies to have to warm up.

Peace,

Anne in Mpls