Webelos Patrol? or Webelos Den?

[fling1]

At our district roundtable last night, I saw a presentation that talked about the entire spectrum of scouting from Tigers to Eagle. In this presentation, I was very surprised to see Webelos described as a Webelos "patrol."

 

I know that the look is achieved by using a "den emblem" (patrol emblem) on a tan shirt. But my perspective has been that leading Webelos to believe that they are a functioning patrol may do more harm than good when it comes to re-learning what a patrol is at the Boy Scout level.

 

I was assured that this is the current language of the Webelos program. My Webelos books and info are a few years old at this point, so I'll ask you guys with the most current information...

 

Does the current Webelos Leader Guide describe the group as a patrol? Or a den?

 

 

[Lisabob]

I don't have my book handy but I am 100% certain of this. The webelos program is based on DENS, not patrols. This is so even when the webelos dens choose an emblem. They're still a den.

 

That said, the mix-up seems pretty common and tends to be just a semantics issue since the emblems are most typically referred to as "patrol emblems." As long as the presenter didn't go on to advocate that a webelos den function just like a boy scout patrol, then I would classify this as a pretty minor issue.

 

Lisa'bob

[fling1]

The topic of our roundtable was Webelos --> Scout transition, and the notion of a Webelos "patrol" was held up as part of the solution -- acclimating the Webs to the notions of Boy Scouting. It's really an extension of the concepts involved in having tan shirts and den emblems, etc.

 

The extension went so far as to include the designation of a "patrol leader" rather than a "denner".

 

This just didn't sound right to me, but I was somewhat alone in my objection. As I said, my perception is that this may do more harm than good in the overall Webelos --> Scout transition over the first several months of Boy Scouting (maybe it helps to get them to a crossover, though?)

 

The pro/con debate is interesting to me, but I primarily want to make sure my knowledge of the Webelos program is current. Thanks for your help.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

I would agree with lisabob. When I was a DL, my Webelos Den had a Patrol emblem but acted like a Cub Den. No patrol leaders or other similararities to the "Patrol Method" as used in Boy Scouts. It is part of learning about how Boy Scouts are different than Cubs and serves as a means to identifying them as part of the Troop when they attend activities during their Webelos years.

[fgoodwin]

I'm not aware of anything in the W2S transition materials from National that calls for Webelos dens to be referred to as "patrols" or to have those dens elect a "patrol leader".

[johndaigler]

Hi fling1,

 

Webelos Scouts belong to Dens, not patrols. There's nothing in the current Webelos Leader literature - including the kid's Webelos Handbook - that uses "patrol" or "Patrol Leader". Your Cub Leader is still referred to as a Denner and, if you're lucky enough to have one, your BSA youth Leader is a Webelos Den Chief, and that's a Den emblem on their sleeve not a patol emblem.

 

I think your Roundtable presentation was just mistaken.

 

jd

[Lisabob]

Not only does hte webelos literature *not* refer to webelos as "patrols" it specifically indicates that webelos not patrols, but still dens.

 

I wish I could locate my webelos book! But here's a link to the virtual cub leader's handbook and a citation of policy on this matter, for those who may want to track it down a bit further.

 

http://www.geocities.com/cybercubber/web-den-emblem.html

 

To use the patrol idea as a way to bridge the w-s transition period is interesting but I agree, mistaken both in terms of program guidelines (not allowed) and intention. While we probably all agree that webelos dens should be given increasing responsibility and opportunity for development toward independent leadership, the fact remains that webelos are not boy scouts and should therefore not be expected or pushed to act just like boy scouts.

In fact my guess is that this presentation was given by someone who is really well-versed in the boy scout program but is less knowledgeable (or long removed from ) the cub scout end of things. At least in my experience, that's where a lot of well-meaning but misguided cub info comes from.

 

Lisa'bob

 

[Sniffles157]

I have my son's book right here. It is the 2005 printing and on page 4 The heading is "Welcome to the Webelos Den". That is just the first one, all over the book it clearly states Webelos Den. On page 29 it talks about the Webelos Denner. I hope this helps clear anything up.

[fling1]

Thanks, all.

[Lynda J]

What I did with my Webs was keep them as a Den through Web I, When they started Web II I split them up into patrols and started working them as patrols. This way when they moved up into the troop they already had a good understanding of how a patrol worked. It worked extreemly well and my boys fit right in with the Troop. We had one boy serve as a PL for one month. Then rotated to another boy.

That was 3 years ago and I think it worked for my boys very well.(This message has been edited by Lynda J)

[Cubmaster-Fred]

While it might have worked, it is still wrong. The Webelos are Dens not patrols.

 

Right now our Webelos II den is known as the Panther Den because this is the name they picked. This is also the name that they will cross over with to form a patrol.

 

Remember, they are still part of the Cub Scout program and they cannot be treated as Boy Scouts.

 

Fred

[queenj]

It's my understand (and I'm sure I've read it in official material) that Webelos scouts are DENS not PATROLS. I'm the Webelos DEN leader of DEN 6 and the name of the den is "Running Wolves". When they graduate to the the Troop, the name of the den will become the name of the patrol.

[woody01]

If you go by the latest uniform Insp. form it shows

the patrol badge under the flag on rt. sholder.

I would say this means you could have the Webelos pick

a patrol name.

[fgoodwin]

Woody, welcome to the Forums.

 

The uniform inspection sheet refers to that patch as a "den emblem":

 

http://www.scouting.org/forms/34282.pdf

 

Its not a patrol emblem, at least it isn't called that when its being used by a Webelos Scout.

 

And because its not referred to as a patrol emblem, I don't think the Webelos boys should be referred to as a patrol -- they're still a "den", even when they use the den emblem instead of a den numeral.

[funscout]

"The Webelos Leader Guide" also talks only of Webelos DENS, never of Webelos PATROLS. I didn't see anything in this book or in my son's Webelos book about choosing a patrol/den emblem, but our Pack has been doing this for a while, so my son's den wanted to choose a den emblem, also.

 

More than one Pack feeds into my older son's troop, so my younger son won't necessarily still be a Cobra when he crosses over.