I have a serious problem and need advise

[Sniffles157]

OK this will probably be long so please bear with me. I am in the process of changing packs due to the fact that I am moving. The pack that I am currently in is a total mess right now. When we started this pack last year, we had enough people to fill in all of the postions. By the end of the year there were only 3 of us left doing everything. When we had the round-up at the begininng of this year we were able to get a rew more people to help. There were now 6 adults running the pack. Unfortunatly we are in a very poor neighborhood and most of the parents will not help due to the lack of money and time. At the beginning of this year I knew I was leaving and it was agreed that I would be the CM till I left, one person would be the ACM and take my postion when I left. At that time all other postions were filled. A few weeks later I was told that I was not the CM and that the person who was supposed to be the ACM was (I still currently hold the Cm postion on paper at the Council Office). I understand the ACM's reasoning for doing this, but I was highly upset over the fact that I was not even asked to step down. I am currently holding no postion. The person who agreed to do CC has stepped down and appartently the CM has taken over the postion without asking the other leaders.

 

That is one problem now for the other. On our checking account there are 3 people listed, myself, the CM and another leader. I was handling the finances and the record keeping until I was told I was not CM anymore and I gave all the records to the new CM. I was in charge of all the popcorn sales so I asked for the checkbook so I could deposit the money and write a check to the council office. Not a single check was written in the transaction book and all that we had proof of was the reciepts. I also gave her a book that had monthly accounts of our expences and deposits. I have not seen the book so I have no idea if she kept it up. I doubt it since all the recipts were in the check book. I sat down and balanced the check book and luckily at that time every thing came out OK. I recieved a phone call a few days later from the CM begging me to deposit the popcorn money because she thinks she overdrew the account. Apparently she wrote 2 checks from another book. Well the bank covered both checks, only one of those overdrew the account, however it put the account into a negative balance so when 2 other checks tried to come thru they bounced and we had to pay fees for each one. After I made the popcorn deposit it cleared our account and put us back to normal. The 2 bounced checks unfortunatly were from the council office and they have not sent them thru yet. Also I just found out that our CO has written us 2 checks that were given to the new CM and neither one has been deposited in the account. According to her she lost one check and I have not even bothered to ask her about the other one yet. All of this mess (that is the nicest word I can think of right now) looks very bad on us with both the council and the CO.

 

Now here is my problem, I feel very guilty leaving the pack in the state that it is in now. I feel that the new CM has taken on way too much responsibilty and so do some of the other people. The other person on the checking account has agreed to become treasurer. We are also going to ask one of the other adults to take over the position of CC. The B&G is coming up pretty soon and there was a meeting scheduled to discuss the event. The CM was very upset that it was scheduled. Apparently at the last Comm. meeting she delagated every thing to the other adults about the B&G, but she is still trying to do everyone elses job. This will be the last meeting that I will attend. I am planning on discussing the problems with the account. I will say that there was 1 check that the bank covered and 2 that were bounced. I will nicely say that it was a mistake and I feel that since the acount is in good order that no one should pay the bounced checks fees. It was a lesson that we have all learned from. I will also say that the pack needs to be reorganized. Most of the other people I have talked to agree with me on this one. We need the CM to stay the CM, one person has agreed to be the treasurer, one other has agreed to take over the CC postion, and one person told me that she was just to diorganized to do anything so she will be just a comm. member. I have not spoken to the CM yet because we are all afraid she is going to be very childish about this whole thing and decided to leave. I can see no way around not hurting the CM feelings and I do not want it to seem like we are all ganging up on her. IMO she has way too much responsibilty, the jobs are not getting done, and it is affecting the pack.

 

I want some feed back from some of ya'll. Am I doing the right thing even if I am leaving. I helped start this pack and even though I am leaving I do not want to see it this way.

[SemperParatus]

Any chance that you could stay and the 'CM' can go

 

If I followed all of this, the Assistant Cubmaster has (i) relieved a Cubmaster of her duties, (ii) assumed the roll of the CC during a vacuum in leadership and (iii) made a mess of the Pack's finances. From your story, she comes across as overbearing, underhanded, undertrained, and not a good leader for either the adults or boys. You are doing the right thing in getting other people involved as CC and Treasurer asap. The new CC will have to deal with the future problems that I suspect this 'CM' will create.

 

Please do not feel any guilt as you move along. You have done your best to get the pack straightened out.

[Sniffles157]

I wish I could stay, but where I am moving to has a pack right down the street from me and that is alot easier than driving an hour to come to the old pack.

 

You have followed it right. I know it got kind of confusing, but you summed it up very well. What is even more scary is (I just found this out on the councils website) that she will be the program director at Day Camp this year. I am hoping that she understands that we are doing this to better organize our pack. She has way too much on her plate especially now that I found that she will be PD. The boys need a stable pack so I hope that this will help solve the problem.

 

I only feel guilty because I helped start this pack and even though we have had some hard times I have enjoyed it so much. I am hoping that I will have the chance to get envoled in the new pack.

[scoutldr]

One of the first things I would do is go to the bank and make sure my name is removed from the account (and signature cards). It is always a good idea for unit accounts to require two signatures for checks and they shouldn't be husband and wife. Having three people authorized to write checks independently of each other is a recipe for disaster.

[Sniffles157]

My name will be removed in a few days, I have to anyway because of the move. It was supposed to be set up as a 2 person signing on the checks, but the ones the bank sent us only had room for one signature and to top all that off they said they never look at the signatures anyway.

We added the new person to the account only because I was moving and I did not remove myself at that time because I was still doing all of the popcorn sales. Then the one who messed up the account wanted me to stay in there so I could find away to fix her mistake. Luckily no one who is on the account is married, so right now we do not have that problem. I have spoken with the new treasurer and as of right now we can not take the other person off the account. No one else will have anything at all to do with this especially now that it got so messed up. We both feel that the account is strait now and she will know now how to avoid future problems like this. I feel safe knowing that she will take this over and that she has a person at the bank that she can go to with any problems. Our only real problem with the account now is what happened to the 2 checks that our Co wrote us. They total over $200 and the pack desperatly needs that money for the B&G.

[rfwlcdr]

This might be a good time to get the Commissioner staff involved. Helping units succeed is, after all, their job description. A nudge from the Unit Commissioner (or perhaps District Commissioner) explaining the roles and purposes of the pack leadership positions (including CC and treasurer) might help, and certainly can't make things worse.

If additional help (or funding) is needed you might also check to see if your District or Council has an active Scoutreach program. Our Scoutreach program provides "temporary" leadership to several units with similar circumstances (usually Den Leaders and Cubmasters) but they also take a strong role in guiding the Committee (while sneaking in some training on the side).

I will echo the previous poster in telling you not to feel guilty for leaving--you're not giving up, you're moving on to a different unit because of a move.

Good luck with your new unit, and stick with the program--it works!

[Sniffles157]

Thanks everyone for all the advise. I have tried contacting our DE I have tried that. The DE is very new at the job and we are such a new district. If our meeting turns into a bad situation I will contact the DE again.

[FScouter]

It's your unit commissioner or the district commissioner you need to call, not the DE.

[Eamonn]

I'm sorry Sniffles, I was unable to follow it all!! Even after SemperParatus explained it I was still confused.

I don't see that you owe the pack anything.

They were aware that you were going to move. So what happens after you move is in their hands. Of course you will want to make sure that you give them all the tools and records that they will need to continue after you have gone and not leave any loose ends. Once you have done that you don't owe them anything and you move on.

When I was Cubmaster, Her That Must Be Obeyed was the pack Treasurer. In fact she only gave up the position about a year ago.

Boy was she tough!!

We had 3 people who were allowed to sign checks and each check needed two signatures. She was on the card at the Bank, I wasn't.

She would as a rule only write checks at the Pack Committee Meeting.

As CM I would collect any receipts from the other Leaders and turn them in at this meeting. Normally this expenditure had been given the green light ahead of time.

The only time I was ever given a signed blank check was the night of Sign up night. But I always came back with a lot more money than the check (Parents paid the full membership amount, but the Council only took the prorated amount. We paid the entire charter fee the next year.)

At the Pack Committee meeting she was able to give a full and proper account of the packs finances.

We all used to tease her a little about how tight she was, but it worked.

Eamonn.

 

[Sniffles157]

Well I am going to update everyone as to what happened at the meeting. I told everyone what happened to the account was a mistake, it is taken care of, and that we have learned from it. I did not go into detail as to who's fault it was. I did mention that we were missing 2 checks that the CO gave us and the first words out of her mouth was, "I didn't have the checkbook." She would not even let me explain what the checks were. Now she did have one of them that was written over a month ago folded up in her wallet. Does that seem strange to anyone or is it just me?

 

I think what really upset me the most was she tried to say all this was not her fault because the records were not kept and all the reciepts were in the checkbook. When she gave me the Pack record book I found out she had not updated it since I gave it to her in the first place. Those records were kept till she got the books and I do not appreciate it one bit that she was trying not to take responsabilty for her actions. I sorry I had to vent there, I do not like being blamed for something I had no control over.

 

I contacted our Rep. from the Co and he is going to get back with me as to how many checks he wrote to our pack. All of us are pretty sure that it was more than 2 checks, but she says otherwise. I am straiting out the Pack record book before I had it over to the new Treasurer. When she found out that we were handing it to someone else she said "I guess they don't _______ think I can handle anything." I am sorry, but ya'll can fill in the blank. I do not talk that way.

 

As far as asking her to hand over the CC book, I did not choose to make the situation worse than it already was and I told the other people after the meeting that it was something that they need to handle. I do not think she will give up her power so easily.

 

FScouter, the reason I tried the DE first is because our district is so new we contacted her for everything last year. After I saw your post I looked at some of our District newsletters and found out who our DC was. The phone number he has listed is no longer working so I am going to see if his e-mail works. I haven't done it yet because I want to calm down some before I contact him. (I am still upset over the whole deal)

 

Eamonn, Her That Must Be Obeyed, hehehe I like that one I may use it. The account does require 2 signatures. The bank has not done their job and the new treasurer will work that out. I like the idea of only writing checks at the meeting. It will be the best way to handle it, everyone brings their recipts to the meeting so they will get reimbursed. The only problem I can see is that the other 2 who were there last year may not like it too much. We spent alot of our own money last year, because we had no pack money at all. We were too new of a pack to have built up an account. That is something though that they will have to deal with. HEHEHE not me anymore!

 

I did contact someone from the Pack that we will be going to and after I spoke to her I was in shock. They have about 32 boys and 16 adults who volunteer. Now I know some of you more experinced scouters are saying so what that is normal. Well to me it is not. We had only 3 adults last year and 5 this year for about 20 boys. It just floored me that they had so many people to help. I was sitting here thinking that I will not be as stressed as I have been and now I will be able to enjoy it more.

 

Thanks again everyone for all of the advise. I have told some of the other people about the site and how much info and help is on here. I know one came on, but she could not find the forums. She asked me to come over and show her.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Dejavu all over again.... I feel your pain because I have been there. I have a couple of questions:

 

1. Why does the CM need to stay the CM? Is it because there is a lack of leadership? Because you feel such a strong tie to this Pack, is it possible for you to continue to help despite the hour distance? When I left my old Pack, they were without a CM. The ACM was new and not comfortable with assuming the full responsibility yet and at the time his work conflicted. I drove an hour a month to run the Pack meetings for that first 6 months. It wasn't convenient at times but it was possible. And, to me, it was better than leaving them struggling until the ACM could take over. If it isn't possible is there someone else willing to fill in until a permanent one can be found? The Scoutreach program sounds like a great avenue (I haven't used it).

 

2. Regarding those two checks from the CO. You need to ask the CO who those two checks were written out to and have they cleared. That should get you started in finding them and point you to a resolution. Let's hope they really are lost.

 

3. Change banks. Any bank that does not verify a two signature account shouldn't be used. The fact that there is only one line shouldn't be the problem. Depending on the institution, two signatures can be on one line. It's the verification that is important.

 

4. Does your committee feel comfortable with this person in any role? If not, leaving that person in place just because there isn't anyone else that will step in immediately could be worse for the unit in the long run.

 

CMJ

[Sniffles157]

CMJ-

When we had the dicussions of who would take over what, they decided to leave her as the CM. She does actually do a great job running the pack meetings. There is a serious lack of leadership in the pack, but the 2 new leaders we got this year are getting more parents involved. When they took the boys to Cub-O this past weekend they had quite a few parent volunteers to go with them. I think it is a great thing because when I took my Webelos to Webelos Woods last year I only had 1 parent volunteer and his child was not going on the campout. I had to reduse the number of kids going because no parent would volunteer to come.

 

I would like to come and help them with the pack after I move, but due to other thing it just would not be possible for me to do it. I have already thought about it and my husband and I dicussed it. Unfortunatly, I will just not be able to do it.

 

As far as all the checks go that the CO has written us, I spoke with their rep. yesterday and we have found all of them. They now all have been deposited and everything has been cleared up.

 

The new treasurer is having the account changed to a 2-person signature. When the account was first set up, I just found this out yesterday, it was not set up as a 2 person signature like we first thought. The reason is because I was the only signature on the account until the other girl was able to show her marraige certificate as proof of her name change.

 

I think I answered the 4th question in the beginning. I am still trying to contact the DC so maybe they can come in and explain exactly what the different postions are. The pack is also very behind on it's training. Everyone has had the Youth Protection. I am the only one who has had the New Leader Essentials ands no one has had the leader specific training. All but 1 has attended Pow Wow this year, so someone needs to step up and make sure everyone has been trained. I do not know if that needs to be the DC or if someone needs to be Pack Trainer. I do know that the 2 new leaders are wanting their other training and I looked on line and found another district who is doing both of the leader trainings. They are planning on attending those.

 

I think it is just time for me to step away and move on. I have helped them as much as I can and the situation is starting to wear on my nerves. People should be able to enloy the volunteer work and not have as much stress as I have had. I hope that the new pack we are going to will be stable enough that I will be able to enjoy it more.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Well, it sounds like there are some positives. That is good.

 

Let me say that I appreciate your thoughtfulness and concern. To often it seems easier to run away from a troubled unit and let it die than work to get it going in the right direction.

 

Good luck in your new Pack and may you find that lower level of stress

 

Jerry

[Torveaux]

It seems it is very important to keep the CM and the checkbook separate. I would not even recommend having a husband/wife team as CM/Treas (or vice versa). While none of us are likely to assume the worst in people, when you put people in a position to be dishonest or careless, you may get it anyway.

 

I really like the idea of having all checks written in the meetings. We are still trying to get the CM (who still thinks he is CEO/CFO of his own 'Cub' company) to refrain from spending money without the prior approval of the committee. I think it is best if the expenditures are first planned, then negotiated, then spent.