A Rotten Eagle - What should be done?

[Salra]

My son's troop just had a family campout over the weekend. My boy is new to this troop, just bridged over from Webelos. I was very dismayed by some of the older boys' behavior on this campout. One scout (an Eagle no less) was very unpleasant. I observed him bullying boys, hit one kid on the back hard etc. Then I find out from my kid that this boy was talking to the younger boys (no adults were around when this happened) about as my kid put it "weird sex stuff". I am in the process of reporting it to the Scoutmaster. Opinions anyone? I don't want this Eagle scout anywhere near my kid in the future. I am pretty steamed at the moment, if the older boy lost his Eagle Badge over this it wouldn't bother me.

[Mike Long]

I don't know if revocation is possible. I've heard that it was but in any event definately let the Scoutmaster and know about it and let him deal with it. If it's not to your liking well I guess the next step is the Troop Committee.

[OldGreyEagle]

As deserved as it may be, the Eagle Rank is not something that may be withdrawn. The Eagle is awarded for work done prior to being awarded the rank, though as you have shown, much is expected of the scout afterwards as well.

 

I assume you have discussed your observations with the scoutmaster and he will do a thorough investigation of the matter. If he doesnt get back to you, dont be afraid to bring it up again. Appearances may be deceiving (As an Eagle myself I hold out hope that your observations were all a misunderstanding)but then again, everything may be as you state and regardless such behavior has to be looked into.

 

And while the Eagle rank is rarely rescinded, an Eagles roster spot is not guranteed when his behavior is "rotten"

[Bob White]

An Eagle Award can be rescinded but only by the national office. I would recommend telling the SM you have a serious concern and would like to address it with the troop committee at the next committee meeting. The things you describe are in violation of the BSA Youth Protection policies and the committee needs to be made aware of them. They have a responsibility to deal seriously with the actions you describe.

 

Bob White

[Salra]

Well an investigation is underway. We will see if the boy owns up to it or denies it ever happened.

 

What is your opinion on the age of when a boy should finish his Eagle? This boy in question is very young (14 or 15). I always thought Eagle was something you finished your senior year in High School or thereabouts. The joke around here is make sure they get their Eagle done before they get their driver's license or it will never get done. This boy is obviously very immature. I do agree that once you get your Eagle, much is expected of you.

[Bob White]

Salra,

That's a dangerous question. It implies that leaders should use age as a determination for advancement. Since no such requirement exists in the advancement requirements of the Boy Scout Handbook it would be improper for anyone to impose such age restraints. To do so would be a violation of BSA advancement policies. It would be similar to asking how tall should a scout be or what should they weigh?

 

Perhaps a better question would be, how can we help make sure that scouts act according the the Scout Oath and Scout Law as they advance toward Eagle?

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not going to give you a straight answer, but it is how I feel.

 

A scout should receive his Eagle Rank when he earns it. No chronological limit is specified nor do I think it should be. If a scout meets all the requirements and along the way, passes through boards of review, scoutmaster conferences and has 21 merit bdages with the appropriate mix earned and an Eagle project, then the boy deserves to be Eagle.

 

Now, if you say that "others" passed the boy along, turned a blind eye and deaf ear to behavior problems and therefore the boy doesnt deserve to be Eagle, its the "others" fault and not the boy's. In this case its not a case of the boy earning Eagle too early, but the adults not following the program. I realize this may be a fine distinction, but all to often I see young eagles lambasted on here for not being Eagle material. I would ask, if the boy slips through the system or figures the system out and is awarded the rank, is it his fault or the people who award him the rank?

 

As a member of the district advancement committee I know we have had some Eagles who were about 17 years, 364 days and 18 hours old when they handed in the final paperwork at Council. I dont know the youngest Eagle we have done as that is irrelevant to the process.

 

(BTW the only reason I know the age of the under the wire Eagles is they say it up front and then have to run around getting signatures before their birthday, we dont bend out standards, but we will sign if the paper work is presented to us)

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Salra]

Thanks again for the information and opinions. I did not know that there are no age guidelines for becoming an Eagle other than it must be done before turning 18. I agree that sometimes the parents/leaders are pushing the boy along and ignoring some very important aspects of being an Eagle Scout. To wit the situation we are in right now.

 

I had to laugh at the "17 years, 364 days and 18 hours old"! I know a friend's son who fell into that category. He made the deadline and his Service Project was designed, organized and executed by the young man himself with the help of other boys that he recruited. His parents weren't sure he was going to get it done but he did.

 

 

[sctmom]

Just a few months ago my son crossed over to a troop. First campout some of us parents went along. There were some problems with the actions of the older boys. Some parents choose to leave the troop immediately. I'm glad I stayed. When it all "hit the fan", I found the scoutmaster very open to what I had to say. He admitted some mistakes and started correcting them immediately (we were still at the campsite). Sometimes the boys are trying to show off in front of each other -- bad language and inapproriate topics seems to be a top choice for "showing off".

 

Sometimes the boys just need a quick scoutmaster conference to remind them of approriate behavior and things calm down. I hope that some of the boys will also step in and correct a boy who is in the wrong. Most likely the younger ones will not venture there or will just be picked on about it.

 

Bottom line -- give the Scoutmaster a chance to correct the situation. Give the Eagle Scout another chance to prove himself to you and your son.

 

[yaworski]

>> A scout should receive his Eagle Rank when he earns it. No chronological limit is specified nor do I think it should be.

[Bob White]

Yaworski,

First Class/ First Year has been a part of scouting program since sometime in the 80s (maybe even earlier). As far as how many scouts earn the Eagle award at age 14, what does it matter as long as they meet the requirements? The BSA has skill requirements, leadership requirement, service requirements and character requirements on the trail to Eagle. Age is not a determining factor. Age does not guarantee maturity, character or ability.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[slontwovvy]

In yaworski's case, however, if the boy doesn't actually do the requirements (his parents do) then he has not met the requirements for Eagle from the National Council. While I agree with his sentiments (too many people push Eagle upon young Scouts too quickly to truly get the most out of Scouting), I have met a few 14-year-old Eagles who truly earned it. The majority, however, have had their parents counsel 20 of the 21 merit badges, or had their parents do their Eagle project, etc. Yaworski, if that is the case, then they do not deserve the badge.

[OldGreyEagle]

We have been down the road of "paper Eagles" before, rather than cover old ground, I have a question, what can be done to either "prevent" or at least lessen the number of "undeserved Eagles"?

[dan]

How in the world can you say mom and dad helped too much? If the parents help the scout learn requirements great. The blame should be placed on the scoutmaster/troop/BOR either the scout has learned/done the requirements or he hasnt, does it really matter who helped him learn the requirements? Mom/dad or the troop, as long as he has done/learned the requirements.

They are 3 checkpoints that should stop this from happening, The 1st sign off of the requirement, the Scoutmaster conference, and than the BOR.

How can you say that mom and dad helped too much, with the above 3 checkpoints?

I sound like you are trying to place the blame on mon/dad for a bad program! (IMHO)

 

[scouter]

We had a scout like that in our troop, a bully. The only thing that could really be done is to tell the scoutmaster and have them sit down with the scout and the parents and have a little meeting. It needs to be brought to the attention of them. And despite the fact that he acts like he should never have earned Eagle due to his immaturity, all you can do is bite your lip and let it be. It is true, some scouts do not act they way they should, and when we wish we could take the rank away, we cannot.