Loin cubs

[woody01]

Has anyone else heard about the new lion cub program. my council seem to be very tight lipped about it. I think it is a good thing, It is for 5 year olds. My brouther is in a neighboring counicl.

His boy is a lion cub.I guess they are working out of the tiger book,doing the electives.

[ScoutNut]

From what I understand, talking to folks across the country on various Cub Scout lists, this is a trial program being run at a few councils. Usually the boys are in kindergarten, or 6 years old. 5 years old could put them in pre-school in some parts of the country!

 

I am not a big believer in Cubs under 1st grade. The boys are WAY to immature & most can not even read at all yet. I think at that age it really does become just babysitting.

 

 

[Greg Nelson]

OK, I'll bite.

 

I think it's a terrible idea. This must be the dream of some paper-shuffler trying to increase numbers.

 

It's enough of a stretch to get Tigers going with the rank-based program. But kindergarten kids? Boys? No way.

 

I don't see how it could much more than glorified play dates. And, far from getting kids interested in Scouting, it'll turn them and their parents off. That's the effect I see in my parts with the Girl Scout Daisies program. Girls sign up all excited, but lose interest since the "good stuff" doesn't happen until Brownies. Many parents can't see the difference, and assume all of Scouting is what they see at the youngest level.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

DITTO!

[purcelce]

I think it is a good idea.

 

GSUSA has Daisy Scouts for Kintergarten or 5 year old girls. My daughter went the program and loved it. She is now in her 3rd year of Brownies.

 

Daisy Scouts only meet 2x a month.

 

At my Church both my kids are members of AWANA (nationwide Nondenominational program for ages 3 - 12). My 4 year old son loves attending and gets a charge out of wearing his AWANA uniform (a vest). He says he has a uniform like daddy.

 

I don't agree with "Lion Cubs" working on Tiger requirements. It should have it's own program. I can work. If the program is to work and attached to Cub packs, it should be an optional for the pack.

 

I wonder how many folks disapproved of the Tiger program when it was first introduced.

 

Cary P

Crew 805 Advisor(This message has been edited by purcelce)

[gwd-scouter]

I have been asked many times at school nights if there was a program for kindergarten aged boys.

 

My oldest son and I got involved in Scouting when he was in 1st grade (1992) and joined the Tiger program. Back then, it was most definately NOT the program we have today. We didn't even know we were part of a Pack. Our program was for the Tiger cubs/parents to get together once a month and do an outing. Each family took a month and made up an outing (fishing, zoo, fire station, etc). There was no book, no advancements, no training for leaders, no "big ideas," no uniform - not even the orange T-shirt. We were given a sheet of iron-on tiger paws - blank black paws - no numbers like the subsequent program - and told we could go to Walmart and buy yellow T-shirts.

 

This was during the early days of the Tiger program and it sounds like the new (proposed) Lion program for 6 year olds will be put together in a similar way.

 

(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[Greg Nelson]

And do we want to go back to the days of 50% attrition from Tigers to Wolves???

 

The problem then was that the boys weren't "really" Cub Scouts. The parents came, they saw, they had had enough after one year. The current system of full integration of Tigers into the Pack leads to much greater retention.

 

Introducing a "Cub Scout-lite" program for kindergartners will only have the effect of making new parents think their boys aren't missing much by dropping out of Scouting.

[acco40]

My daughter was ready for Girl Scouts at six year old. My sons were not. Think of it this way, you have Tigers (1st Graders) and some Webelos (5th graders) in the Pack. Think of the difficulty that exists now in trying to have a Pack program that keeps the interest of the second year Webelos and doesn't go over the heads of the Tigers. And someone wants to introduce Kindergarten kids?

[Lisabob]

I'm not too excited about this idea either. I think the BSA would be better advised to focus on ways to strengthen the existing program instead of trying to inflate recruitment numbers this way.

 

I've gotten lots of questions at open house and round up nights from parents of kindergarten boys too. I just don't think "yes" is a good answer in this case.

 

Around here, boys can join as Tigers immediately upon graduating kindergarten and they can attend day camp. So for the last several years we've taken boys who just finished K to camp as "cub scouts," along with the rest of the pack. There's a deep and wide chasm between the youngest and the oldest boys and it can be quite a challenge. I just can't imagine incorporating those boys into pack or district activities for cubs at the beginning of the K year!

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[Torveaux]

First off the type in the subject is a bit off-putting...eeek!

 

The devil is in the details. My daughter was a Daisy. Now she is a Brownie. My older son is a Web I.

 

My next son will be in Kindergarten next year. I would love to be able to have a program for him and his classmates. The trick is to make it 1) affordable 2) interesting 3) give just enough connection to the Pack to make them interested in moving on.

 

Here is what I would do: Meet once per month in school where possible or with the group in a fun place. Stick to 1/2 an hour perhaps up to an hour. Stay away from Pack meetings except on 'special' occasions. It may be different for some Packs, but Pinewood and Crossover would be enough. Give them a taste and include them in the ceremony to go from Lions to Tigers.

 

The uniform? The red vests. That way they will have them and can use them as they grow. Like the Daisies, I would go for a patch system that builds on itself.

 

The goal would only be to acquaint the boys and their families with Scouting. Perhaps they could learn the Law of the Pack and the Cub Scout Sign, but fun is key.

 

Cost? $5 plus vest. National gets $1. Council gets $1. Pack gets $1. Lion's Den gets $2.

 

The recruiting goal would be to get 100% participation. I see a lot of people who get their kids into Soccer (and to a lesser degree other sports) by this time. If you get people interested early you have a better chance of keeping them. If it is 'easy' for parents to attend and does not have a heavy investment, you will be much more likely to get them in the door. Don't think in terms of retention %, think of getting as many in the door as possible. Even in our small school/pack we get 1/2 to 1/3 of the boys in each class at most. If you can get 90-100% in a 'lite' program, you can go for 60-70% retention rates and still improve the overall size of a program.

 

 

 

 

[woody01]

These boys being 5 do not bother me in my area kids

in kindergarden go to school all day just like 1st

graders,They ride the bus with kids K-grade 5.

 

Girl scouts have been including K-age kids for years.As hard as it may be boys are no harder to control than girls. I have both my self.If you keep them busy they will be fine they have to learn some time.Honestly my Tigers are the best behaved den in the whole pack. so i do not think age is a issue.

[woody01]

Sorry about my spelling.

[SR540Beaver]

How many old timers remember the old Lion rank in Cubs? I do because I have the Lion handbook at home. While Webelos has been around for many years preceeding 1967, I believe Webelos became a formal program and rank in 67 which is when I became a Webelos. Before that, the rank of Lion followed Bear. I'm sure BSA has a warehouse full of old Lion stuff they can haul out and sell again.

[molscouter]

Acco40 sums up my feelings on this to a tee. It's hard enough to put together a pack meeting for 1st-5th graders, adding kindergarteners would make it nearly impossible.

 

Woody, you said "Girl scouts have been including K-age kids for years.As hard as it may be boys are no harder to control than girls. I have both my self.If you keep them busy they will be fine they have to learn some time."

 

I'm not familiar with the Girl scout program, but it seems to me that the units are close aged based. K-1's together, 2-3s (forgive me if my grades are off here). They don't have 1st and 5th graders in the same unit. Maturity levels are relatively the same. Put thosr K's with some 5th graders and see what happens.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Scouting "Lite"

Meet once a month only

Do "fun" outings only

Minimal uniforms

Not a real part of the Pack

Only allowed at final Pack meeting to graduate

Simply a way to introduce families to Scouting

 

 

Maybe it's me, but this sounds VERY familiar.

 

BSA has already tried this type of program with the early Tigers. It did not work well then & it will not work well now with even younger boys.

 

BSA found that rather than encouraging boys to become Scouts by giving the families a "taste" of what Scouting would be like once they become "real" Cub Scouts, it was causing families to decide they had better ways to spend their time. They just were not invested enough in the program & they felt the program was not invested in their boys. That is why BSA beefed up the Tiger program until the boys felt they really were a part of Cub Scouting & not just "red-headed step children".

 

For those of you comparing GSUSA & BSA, GSUSA had much the same problem with the Daisy program. They ended up having to beef it up so it was a more integrated level, had more of a program to it & not as much of a babysitting, crafty, play date.

 

BTW - Girls & boys ARE different. While they both have the attention span of a gnat at 5-6 years old, girls can be more easily induced to sit still for longer than 2 seconds & to actually work on a craft. Boys would much rather run in circles & jump on other boys. Actually this behavior extends into first grade too!