leadership problems - any advice?

[tomtoad]

I hope this is the board to post this ... maybe some of you more experienced scouters can give me some advice please.

 

Our leadership is in a bit of dissaray and I am in a bit of a quandary.

 

We have a very experienced committee chair (who is also our Webelos den leader for 3 units!), hardly any committee members, a cubmaster (who needs help!) and 2 den leaders (including myself) who regularly attend meetings and show a sincere interest in the pack.

 

We recently had one parent volunteer to be on the committee and another as an assistant den leader for the webelos. But, we also have registered den leaders (in the other 2 units) who don't bother to show up for pack meetings or even to conduct regular den meetings for their scouts. A lot of burden is placed on our Cubmaster, her husband, our committee chair, myself and the other den leader. We have about 50 boys in our Pack.

 

Our cubmaster's husband (who is not registered with the BSA) has taken charge of managing the unit alongside side his wife (our cubmaster), and I think that this is causing some friction with the Committee Chair, as he (the unregistered husband) has a very unique way of doing things.

 

Our cubmaster's husband is a great fellow, but I think the fact that he refuses to register at this time, yet still wants to be cubmaster along with his wife is really what is causing some unpleasant under-currents with the Committee Chair.

 

Our cubmaster and her husband also wants our unit to break away from the main pack and re-charter.

 

The cubmaster and her husband has done a tremendous job of getting our unit on its feet in the 3 months they have been active in it. They also volunteered when no-one wanted to step forward and take up the responsibility, and I do have a lot of respect for them both.

 

They are putting a lot of faith in me as I am an energetic den leader and a willing volunteer. I have already taken on some responsibilities that are outside of my 'job description' because no-one else is stepping forward.

 

But I feel like I've been forced into the middle of their politics (the husband has had made some negative comments about the Committee Chair to me) having to choose sides so-to-speak, which I don't want to do.

 

I'm in Cub Scouts for my son, not for other people's politics.

 

How do you handle such sensitive issues? Any comments or advice would be much appreciated!(This message has been edited by tomtoad)(This message has been edited by tomtoad)

[ScoutNut]

In order to help I need some calrification of some terms you are using.

 

You keep mentioning various "Units". Do you mean "Dens"? Or has your Charter Organization (CO) chartered 3 different Cub Scout Packs? When you say the Cubmaster (CM) & her husband want your "unit" to break away from the Pack, are you speaking of just your Wolf Den?

 

One thing that stands out is that you state the CM runs your "Unit". Packs are mainly "run" by the Committee Chair (CC) & the Charter Org Representative (COR). The CM is in charge of the program part of it & runs the Pack meetings.

 

I must admit to being confused by how your Pack is set up.

[tomtoad]

Thx for replying.

 

My apologies for the confusing terms -- I am still trying to learn the 'lingo' so to speak.

 

Our pack consists of 3 small towns close by each other - each town has their own collective dens (tigers,wolves,bears,webelos) who meet weekly in church halls and a community center.

 

We have 1 cubmaster and one committee chair for all three and all together we are one pack. When I say "unit" I mean each separate town with their own dens - I don't know how else to describe it.

 

Our "town" (which is where the CM and CC also act as den leaders) wants to re-charter and break off ties with the other two "towns". The CM and her husband wants to make this move, the committee chair does not want it to happen.

 

I hope this helps clarify my post a bit. It is a bit confusing, I must admit.

[evmori]

It sounds like there is on Pack per town in three separate towns. How may kids in each unit?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleInKY]

Wow, certainly is confusing. I was about to ask some of the same questions.

 

One point, the Committee Chair is not supposed to hold a den leader position. The Committee Chair should be making sure the pack and den leadership has what they need to be successful. The cubmaster should focus on coordinating the "pack" program and functions. This means a lot of interaction with the den leaders to carry that off.

 

Perhaps you need to look at revisiting your structure. If two of three "units" are struggling, maybe you should look at combining them a different way. Are the towns so far apart that people couldn't travel to them for den meetings? A pack of 50 boys with 3 of each type of den (Tiger, Wolf, Bear, WebI and WebII) seems highly fragmented. If I do the math right, that sounds like about 3 or 4 boys per den at each unit. A pack of 50 could probably get by with one of each age group (maybe two of the younger ones). You are so fragmented, you must be having trouble getting volunteers. If you had 2 Tiger, 2 Wolf, 1 Bear, 1 WebI and 1 WebII, you would only need 7 leaders instead of 15. That's a 50% reduction. Now you can be much more successful with higher caliber leaders.

[ScoutNut]

That is the strangest way to put a Pack together that I have ever heard of!!

 

Who is the Pack's Charter Organization? Or does each "unit" have it's own Charter Org? Or is it one of those "Parents Of" type of Charters?

 

Eagle is right, your Pack is way to fragmented to be run correctly. No wonder you are having problems. You need to consolidate your Dens or do as the CM is suggesting & (if there are enough boys out there) split into 3 separate Packs.

 

[Lisabob]

Let's talk about the role of the CM, CM's unregistered husband, Committee Chair, adn the rest of the committee.

 

First, the CM is supposed to be a sort of "master of ceremonies" who runs the monthly pack meeting. That's it. The pack program should already be arranged by the committee (including all the planning and logistics) so that all the CM needs to do is show up. And the CM should be willing to get goofy with the kids. One person explained the CM's role to me once as "the clown in chief."

 

Second, the CM's husband. Sounds like he is excited about helping. Great. The committee needs to get him registered though, or else politely explain that he can't be a leader. Why doesn't he want to register? All he needs to do is fill out a form, which isn't hard.

The top reasons I've heard from adults who didn't want to register were:

 

1. They want to know why they have to provide their SSN.

My Answer: The SSN is only used for the mandatory BSA background check. It is not kept on file by anyone in the pack. Council office keeps the adult registration forms on file, but only the paid professional staff (not volunteers) have access to them at the Council level.

 

2. They are embarrassed about some "youthful indiscretion" that's on their legal record, like underage drinking or traffic incidents.

My Answer: Those kinds of things are unlikely to raise a red flag in the BSA background check process, unless they are both recent and repeat occurrences. BSA is much more worried about people who really should not be working with children based on child welfare/abuse convictions, or serious criminal backgrounds.

 

Also: In most cases, adult applications are only reviewed by a couple of people on the committee, who are required to sign off on the applications before turning them in to council - they are not widely disseminated among the pack leadership. So whatever you write down is not going to be spread around.

 

3. They have some much more serious problem on their record, which probably ought to preclude them from being a leader (this is rare, but I've seen it happen).

 

The answer here depends a little bit on the problem they have and in some cases there's not much the committee can do except politely decline the person's offer to help and then keep a very close eye on them at future meetings. But like I said, this isn't a common situation.

 

4.They don't seem to have a reason, they just don't want to register.

My Answer: Wouldn't you feel better knowing that the people who are responsible for your son's program are registered leaders? Don't you want to know your child is safe when he's at meetings run by other adults? Well so does everybody else, so you need to register too. Basically, too bad, get over it, or don't be a leader.

 

If, after all of this, he still won't register, well then, the committee has every right (and I'd say obligation) to make it clear that he is not a leader, he cannot speak for the pack or otherwise make pack decisions, he doesn't get a vote at committee meetings, and his interaction with the boys during meetings is limited to whatever the other non-leader parents are expected to do. The fact that his wife is the CM has nothing to do with it.

 

If the committee lets him continue as an unregistered leader and some accident occurs at a pack or den meeting where you need your pack insurance, the pack may find themselves up the proverbial creek. Pack insurance only covers the pack if you follow the BSA rules - and one of those is that leaders should be registered. I hate to lean on this sort of argument, but this is reality.

 

Also you mentioned his "very unique way of doing things." Is this a polite way of saying the guy is a jerk who no one can stand to work with? Or do you just mean he's a little quirky?

 

Third, the CC and the committee. When you say the CC, "hardly any" committee members, the CM, and 2 den leaders are the only ones who regularly attend meetings, are you talking about den meetings, pack meetings, or committee meetings?

 

What committee positions do you have filled and active? Have these people been to training? (Have you? Has your CM?) Maybe people are reluctant to be active committee members either because they don't know what they are committing to do, or because they're overwhelmed and don't have the tools they need to do the job. In both cases, training is helpful.

 

You mention that the pack is spread out over 3 towns. Is part of the problem with attendance at meetings that people just have to travel too far and it is inconvenient/difficult? Or is it more that they're not showing up because they just aren't that interested? If the former, then maybe it does make sense to split into two or three separate packs (but the entire leadership ought to have a serious discussion with the district staff first about how to make this work). If the latter, then splitting probably won't make things any better and may in fact make them worse because you'll have a smaller group of adults to draw from.

 

I've been in your shoes with packs that had leadership difficulties so I know it can be stressful. One of the easiest things you can do (if you haven't already) is push everyone to get fully trained for their position. That should help people figure out what they are (and aren't) supposed to be doing. Once a core group of leaders "gets it" and the program is on track, then it isn't as hard to recruit new adults because getting involved won't seem so overwhelming, either.

 

Keep us posted on how things are working out!

 

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[ScoutNut]

"First, the CM is supposed to be a sort of "master of ceremonies" who runs the monthly pack meeting. That's it. The pack program should already be arranged by the committee (including all the planning and logistics) so that all the CM needs to do is show up."

 

Not exactly. The Committee & the CC are the administrative end of the Pack, & the CM is the program end.

 

The CM & the Pack committee, TOGETHER, plan the yearly program, monthly pack meetings & Pack activities.

 

The Committee oversees everything & makes sure that the CM has what he needs to run a good program.

 

[Lisabob]

Right, but ultimately the buck stops with the CC and the committee. It certainly would be poor judgment to exclude the CM from planning, etc., since the CM is expected to carry out the program though. Scoutnut, I suspect we're pretty much saying the same thing - my point was just that the CM is not supposed to be "running" the pack - that's not what the job is about, although that's what a lot of CMs seem to do (or in some cases, seem to want to do).

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[ScoutNut]

Sorry Lisa, it sounded to me like you were saying the CM had no input into program at all & only did what he/she was told by the committee.

 

You are right, the CM does not "run" the Pack.

 

Unfortunately, in this case it sounds like nobody is running the Pack! Tomtoad, do you know who your Unit Commissioner (UC) is? Their job is to help Units (Pack, Troop, Crew) & your Pack could certainly use some help. If your Pack has not been assigned a UC, give your local council a call and find out who your District Commissioner is. Your DC should be able to help too.

 

 

[SemperParatus]

"I'm in Cub Scouts for my son, not for other people's politics. How do you handle such sensitive issues?"

 

Be forthright and honest. I would tell them you feel very uncomfortable in getting involved in any parent politics, you volunteer in scouts to serve the boys only, and you have no intent to speak ill of anyone. Afterwards, if they trash talk about someone to you, ignore what they say and respond by reminding them of your position. Eventually, they will know to keep their comments to themselves.

[jens3sons]

Lisabob, and Scoutnut, although you both have agreed you are pretty much on the same "page", I just would like to send a word of caution to Lisabob. I come from a pack that the outgoing CC was trying to recruit a new CM for me prior to me taking over as CC...her was of recruiting was saying to the potential CM that you just need to be a Master of Ceremonies. Basically he just needed to show up. Not the case at all. Programing is a HUGE part of a successful Pack Meeting. The Cub Master really needs to have a handle on what is being discussed for the upcoming pack meeting. My current Cub Master is not that great with yucking it up for the kids, but my Asst. CM is, and the three of us work fantastically together. Each of us has found our "niche" in making the pack "go". (By the way, this was the CM that I Recruited after the one that was recruited for me hardly showed up!) I made it very clear what the expectations of the cub master is, and recruited accordingly.