Pre-cut Pinewood Derby Cars

[OneHour]

So ... we now have a plethora of outfits that sell pre-cut BSA pwd cars as well as polished axles, wheels, etc. Our CM asked the question to head off the conflict in our Pack's rules: namely the car has to be from the original BSA kit only.

 

I went online and sure enough there are a lot of outfits sell them. By the time that you have purchased everything, it would have cost you about $40-$60 for a BSA pre-cut car/axles/wheels and that's not include any paint yet nor assembly yet. If you look at eBay, they even sell $80 completed car!

 

His questions were: What should our Pack do with regards to precut bodies? With regards to polished axles and lathed wheels? My answer to him is that: This is a parent/son project. We can't limit them even if we wanted to, because technically they have not done anything illegal. They are using BSA specified kit (eventhough they are precut). They are using specified axles and wheels (eventhough they are polished and balanced). They have not altered any specifications that where the rules of pinewood derby. I pointed out that when we held our pinewood workshop, this is exactly what we were doing ... pre-cut cars, assist in polishing the axles and wheels, teaching them how to lub their wheels, etc. This is to help the power-tool challenged families. By their purchasing the online stuffs is the same principles. The steps that are left are the assembling of the car and the paint job and all that can be done by the boy! As a matter of fact, the more that I think about this, the better is the idea. One thread there was a concern that the parent was doing too much of the car! Well, 60% of the hard work is using the powertool to cut the car (I'm not talking about the coping saw). This is done by the parent. What if the car is pre-cut, unfinished, and the remaining steps can be done 100% by the boy? Would this be good?

 

Anyway, I further told our CM that if any parent willing to shell out $40-$60 to win, then he should convince him/her to go ahead and spend $20 instead of the $40-$60 to purchase the trophy for his/her son, because for $20, his/her cub will guarantee him a nice size 1st place trophy while saving $20-$60!

 

To me it is impossible to determine if the car is professionally pre-cut or not. It is also impossible to tell if the axles have been pre-polished or not. So, I'm not sure how we can uphold the rule that the pinewood derby has to from the original block of wood.

 

What do you think? Have y'all run into this dilema in your Pack? How do you resolve it?

 

Thanks,

 

1Hour

[SemperParatus]

If there is a large group of Pack families that are willing to spend $50-80 on a pinewood derby car, with the expectation that it will be a winner, then I think it is time to wave the white flag and can the derby altogether.

 

I haven't a clue what is available today. Years ago, the local craft stores carried some pre-cut non-BSA kits (about $15) that were easily identifiable. I think there were 2 or 3 different body styles and the wheels/axles were different. I had bought each of the kits and assembled them to demonstrate what would not be allowed on race day, and made them available to inspectors to ensure that the pre-fab kits were not being used. However, from your post, it sounds like this simple method is no longer possible due to a plethora of pre-cut BSA kits now available.

 

I suppose if it is indeed a BSA kit, pre-fabbed professionally, then you really can't do too much about it. Maybe after a couple of $60 cars get blown away by little Johnny's brick car, folks will come to their senses.

 

[OneHour]

Semp ... here are some ...

 

Disclaimer first:

 

I do not and will not endorse the following links, manufacturers, products, or their ideals.

 

 

http://www.maximum-velocity.com/kits.htm#Kits

http://www.pinewoodpro.com/pinewood-derby-pre-cut-car-designs.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/PINEWOOD-DERBY-CAR-CUB-SCOUTS-BEST-SPEED-DESIGN_W0QQitemZ7724099899QQcategoryZ404QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&fstype=1&from=R10&satitle=pinewood+derby&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1&fsoo=1

 

You're right. The precut ones at Hobby Lobby and Michaels are fairly easy to spot (the PineCar precuts), but others (from these pictures) will be hard to figure out.

 

Yes, that would be poetic justice if a $5 pinewood brick beats the heck out of the $60 car.

 

It's getting tougher and tougher to make it fair.

 

1Hour

[EagleInKY]

Our policy is that they have to use the standard package (block, wheels, axles) from the bsa kit. Anyone built from a non-BSA kit will be disqualified. Now, with the plethora of pre-cut kits out there, it is impossible to tell if it is one of these, so we trust them to be honest about it. We've had people come in with illegal tires and axles. We've made them switch them out for the standard BSA issue before weighing in. (The look on dad's face when you tell him that is priceless). Again, as for the polished & balanced BSA standard wheels and axles, we just have to trust them.

 

Here's the bottom line, though. Technically, if they are product created from BSA kits, they aren't doing anything illegal. They are just putting the value of winning ahead of the time spent together with their son making the car. It's kind of sad & pathetic when you think about it.

[Lisabob]

Our pack and district derbies state quite explicitly that the only cars we will allow to race are ones that the boy/parent make together using the kit we provide (ie, the block of wood, wheels, axles, etc.). We specifically rule out the use of pre-cut bodies, polished axles & wheels, etc.. The only exception is that sometimes the wheels will include a nub on them that prevents them from turning properly and that may be removed.

 

As far as I'm aware packs can set their own derby rules, though if your boys might be racing in your district/council race too, it would be smart to consider their rules as well. After witnessing carnage in 2 packs that had vague rules we set to work crafting clear rules and making sure parents knew what they were. Since then we've had far fewer problems, far more enjoyable race days.

 

If there really are lots of folks in your pack who want to have an anything-goes race, why not have an "open class" as a follow up to the "regular" pinewood? Just don't mix the two!

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[OneHour]

Lisabob ... the problem is how to determine whether or not it's a precut body or a pre-polished and trimmed axles and wheels. It's easy to figure out non-BSA materials, but it's the car that is completely made from prefab BSA kit! I don't know how anyone ccould tell even from at the district's level or higher.

 

We have open races where everything goes as well as an 18-wheeler truck division to keep the more enthus. parents busied.

 

They really have not broken any pinewood rules other than the spirit of pinewood derby.

 

1Hour

[Lisabob]

Ah that's just sad, I didn't realize that.

 

I guess one way to check that would be to have den/pack work days where they have to have the standard issue kit to work on (we did this anyway but more to help boys/parents who lacked tools or know-how, not to prevent cheating). Still someone would get around it and it might be a mess to enforce.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[Prairie_Scouter]

I'm with Semper on this one. If your pack has gotten to the point that they're willing to shell out that kind of cash, it's time to move on to something else. Winning has gotten WAY too important.

 

Our rule has always been that you have to use the standard BSA kit, and the parent and son have to make the car, with the son doing as much of the work as possible. Really, you don't NEED any power tools to make a car, but for basic shaping, using a power tool does make sense. We do polish the axles, and some folks will grind off imperfections on the wheel surfaces, but we have rules requiring that the basic geometry of the wheel remains, that is, you can't make the surface area smaller by rounding of the wheel surface, etc.

 

For those parents who want to buy premade cars because they are "tool challenged" we offer workshops where we bring in all our tools and help them get going. By the time the evening is over, all they need are standard hand tools and sandpaper.

 

Remember that Pinewood Derby isn't really supposed to be about the racing. It's about the parent and son getting together to work on the car. I have one son who built cars that were really fast, but I have another son who built the car just for the fun of building a cool looking car. They both had fun.

[SemperParatus]

In my last year of coaching little league, the league didn't even bother providing the standard-issue canvas bag of bats and helmets. All of the boys had their own $200 titanium bats in their personally monogrammed bag, as well as their own helmet with their names imprinted on the back. I was really bummed because I had to go out and buy my son a bat. All I can think is that we have come a long way from a broom handle and a sock ball. The funny thing is that with all of that expensive, fancy equipment, the boys are really no better players then they were when I was a kid. In fact, they seem to have developed unhealthy anxieties over where they left their bat and helmet, for fear that someone else may use them or they may have to face the wrath of parents for losing such expensive apparatus. For some, this was of greater concern then the play on the field. Maybe, that is why I see so many parents carrying the kids' bat bags to and from the field. It goes without saying that the parents are really no better spectators either. I am afraid the derby is heading to the same fate. As long as it is a competitive event, you can be certain that some parents will spend whatever it takes so that their son will win. Innocence is lost. I guess it is just time that we accept that.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

[anarchist]

 

Gosh,

rules need not be tough

length -not to exceed total length of the kit (7 inches?)

height off track- (practically it has to be able to run...

be the same as the official kit block of wood, weight....5 oz (not to exceed)

preshaped vs orginal block if it is no more than shape???...who cares

 

wheels and axles must be from the BSA official race kit...period. no custom wheels or prepolished axles...bearings etc.

We adopt basic "rules in the box" which are our district rules... so our participants can go to district races....

 

been part of 12 of these now, and I can not remember a totally preformed car ever winning...some with added fenders and decorative parts but never a straight out of the box car...(lots of "dad work" but not preformed)

 

We insist on the BSA wheels and axles...and have only disqualified two cars in 12 years for 'super wheels'...most problems have to do with over-weight cars or cars too "low" to run on the track...

 

Keep it simple and fun...we have several heats (flights) and an elimination heat (with prizes)also, so the boys get lots of racing ( makes loosing easier) and interestingly enough,some of the real fancy cars (ie "dad cars") don't "hold up" (wheels usually fall off) to the continuous racing and its a gas to see a "blob on wheels" beat the "super dad" car...and it almost always happens.... round here anyways...

 

 

good racing and good luck

Anarchist