Awards cost

[mbscoutmom]

How much does your pack spend on awards and gifts? What kind of limits do you have on them? Ours has been spending an average of $100 per month for around 30 boys. In past years, we've handed out beltloops, pins, and patches for everything under the sun, for the scouts and the leaders, too. At graduation we hand out neckerchiefs, and special gifts for scouts and leaders who are crossing over. I think this is why our dues are so much higher than what many of you report.

[Lisabob]

Yes I'd agree, that's a major reason for higher dues. We've run into this in the past too. After making some changes we went from spending as much as $130/month to spending between $50-$70/month, for a pack of about 35 boys. Typically Sept/Oct (new scouts haven't earned a lot yet) and April/May (after our B&G and pinewood are done) are less expensive.

 

The problems we faced with giving out a zillion patches were three-fold.

 

1. Boys seemed to develop an entitlement attitude to "getting" something at every pack meeting, regardless of whether they'd earned anything. Also they began to compare "how many" each boy got. This shifted the focus from the experiences they were supposed to be having, enjoying, and growing from, to the commodity.

 

I whole-heartedly support giving any boy each and every recognition that he has earned but there should be some meaning behind an award, or it may very well devalue the award, program and participant.

 

2. Some parents push patches, etc. for their boy even though the boy probably couldn't care less. And some parents actually competed with each other over how many awards their boys had earned! Honestly, one wonders about parental motives occasionally.

 

3. It all just got too expensive.

 

So the pack decided the following:

1. The pack awards one rocker segment related to the pack's monthly theme each month. If den leaders want to award additional ones, they can, but it should be related to something the den has actually done, only boys who actually participated in the activity should get the patch (ie, they had to be physically at the meeting), and it gets paid for out of the den's annual program money (each den gets an annual budget based on size and on fundraising success).

 

2. The pack pays for all beltloops/pins, webelos pins, rank advancements, world conservation award, leave no trace award, outdoor activity award, etc.. But if a boy loses them or decides to earn the same beltloop/pin multiple times we don't buy multiples. Parents are welcome to spring for replacements and duplicates if they choose.

 

3. Commemorative awards depend on the cost. For example, the 75th anniv. patches - these were great and we encouraged boys to earn them (there were 4 separate ones with requirements, plus a generic one with no requirements). However, they were darned expensive ($2.95 each I think?). We explained to parents that if the pack paid for all of these awards for all the boys we'd use up nearly all our fundraising profits just on that. So we bought the generic patch for all the boys as part of our 75th anniv. B&G celebration, but we asked parents to spring for the others if the boys were interested in earning them.

 

4. At our "graduation" in the early summer we usually award each boy a neckerchief for his next rank. For Webelos II we generally supply the BSA handbook at the B&G. All of this depends on fundraising success though.

 

5. At B&G we cut back on spending for food, decorations, and dessert. We went from having a fancy catered dinner to having a "finger food feast" last year. Most of the food was still purchased and brought in but really different from a full 3-5 course meal. Some packs do pot luck but we couldn't get agreement on that. The boys now make most of the decorations themselves leading up to the B&G. We also have a "macho cake bake" now so that's dessert. All of these changes were motivated by budget crunches, but they had the result of making our B&G more fun, more focused on the BOYS instead of the parents, and just a whole lot better. Only one parent complained and I'm pretty sure that particular person would complain about winning the lottery. The rest gave very positive feedback.

 

7. Finally AoL - we switched last year from buying really expensive awards/gifts to making the awards. We had 12 AoL boys in a pack of about 40 last year. For each, the webelos den leaders and a few other parents got together and made a really nice wood plaque shaped like the AoL itself. On each plaque we mounted a hand-painted arrow, with bands of different colored paint symbolizing the things the boys had done and awards earned over the years, and a small engraved plaque with their name, pack #, den symbol, and date. The wood and plaques were donated by local businesses. The arrows cost $30 for a box of 12. The paint we already had in our den boxes. So total cost, $30 for 12 great awards. And they are really beautifully made, solid, and will last forever. The boys were awe-struck, as were the other families in attendance.

 

Sorry for long-ish post. I hope maybe your pack will find a useful idea or two for cutting expenses.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[ScoutNut]

Approximate costs per month :

 

September - $120

Includes segments & loops for all summer activities, neckers, slides, books, vests & patches for new boys, Bobcat rank & Mother's pins, misc segments for Den activities, new Immediate Recognition Totems, belt loops.

 

Oct & Nov - $50 to $70

Includes segments for previous Pack meetings/activities, Webelos Activity Pins, Webelos Colors, misc segments for Den activities, belt loops, patches & cords for new Den Chiefs.

 

December - $200

Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities, a Pinewood Derby Car for each Scout & a treat (usually a filled candy cane) for all kids (scouts & sibs), rockets for boys meeting popcorn goal. We do a Pot Luck dinner with the Pack providing chicken.

 

January - $50

Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities.

 

February - $150 to $200

Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities, Rank badges, Mother's Pins, Boy Scout Handbooks, BS Slides, BS red Shoulder Loops, compass for 5th graders, fun awards for departing leaders & families.

 

Mar & Apr - $50

Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities.

 

May - $350 to $400

Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities, new neckers, slides & books for each level, vittle kits for 4th graders, patches, scarf, slide & Leader Book for new Wolf Den Leaders, fun awards for most helpful parents.

 

This is for 35-40 boys. We don't do big, fancy patches. Most of our recognition patches are the small curved segments. We only do belt loops/pins if the sheet from the book/internet is turned in showing the boy's name, den, what was done & parent or leader signature. We don't seem to do to many, I think the families & leaders tend to forget about them. This February we will also be awarding the Pack version of the 75th Anniv Award & the Quality Unit Award.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

I can't tell you how much we spend per month, but per year, my Pack spends about $36 per boy. This includes rank badges, arrow points, webelos pins, 3 summer activity patches and about six other special activity patches (PWD, SFF, etc). The parents must buy all belt loops and any other extra patches earned that don't go toward advancemnt, such as World Conservation, etc. Other things such as PWD trophies and AOL career arrows are, of course paid for by the Pack.

 

Just to comment on Lisabob's comment on the potential for the boys to develop a competitive nature when it comes to patches. Do you really think that the fact that they get a patch takes away from the experience? While that may be some of the motivation for attending the activity, I would bet that in the end, the boy gets much more out of it than a patch. And, by giving a patch, you may get more to attend.

[Lisabob]

Jerry,

 

No I don't believe that withholding a patch makes the experience more meaningful, or that getting a patch reduces the meaning of the experience. That's not what I meant to suggest. And I agree that giving a patch can motivate some people to attend an event.

 

However, I have seen situations where boys are given 10-15 patches or awards at every pack meeting and half of the patches/awards are for things the boys can't even identify, doesn't remember, or never did - just "bling." This is usually the result of very pushy parents who insist that their boy get every award and patch ever produced - a misplaced sense that this will make the boy more worthy or pump up the boy's self esteem, or I don't know what. In those cases it becomes a matter of who can collect the most loot, not a genuine recognition of an experience, activity, etc.. And imo that does cheapen the meaning behind other awards that the boys do actually put effort into achieving. In this context, I actually have had to deal with boys who were in tears because "Joey got more patches than I did." I've also had to deal with their annoying parents who actually boasted about the number of awards their boys were getting vs. some other children, in front of the boys.

 

So no, all I was saying is that the awards should be genuine reflections of things the boys actually did or earned in some way.

 

Jerry, question for you too - what do you do about the Webelos and beltloops, where some beltloops are required in order to get the webelos pin (and so part of the advancement requirements)? Do parents pay for those too? Just curious. We found many of our Webelos already had or didn't particularly want the beltloops anyway, but that wasn't the case for all of them.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

 

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

I'm a year removed now from being the CC of the pack, but here's what I remember, just for reference....

 

We spent about $1300 per year on various awards for a pack of about 50 Scouts. They dues cover a new book for each Scout, their neckerchief, and a pinewood derby car. Everything else comes out of popcorn sales. That includes about $130 a year for Pinewood Derby awards.

 

We did place some limits to keep things under control and try for a more even cash flow. We will pay for up to 5 brag vest segments per month, 3 belt loops, 3 pins. No limit on other awards, but since those are harder to earn, they aren't as frequent. Those limits help to spread the expense and somewhat avoid any Scout getting "too many" things at a pack night.

 

I'm a big believer in giving the Scout something for as many things as you can that require any kind of effort. Even just participating is important. These are recognition for the individual Scout, and keepsakes for them. It's not about competition for who's got the most. Except for at the moment of delivery, I don't really see the Scouts talking much about who got more stuff. I gave them a list every month describing what every segment, pin, etc. was for. If they keep those, they can look back 30 years later and remember what project they got that vest segment for.

[DanKroh]

If you'll please pardon my ignorance, but what are these "segments" that some folks are talking about?

 

I guess my Pack has never done them, and I am very curious what they are.

 

Thanks!

 

Dan

[ScoutNut]

Segments are small, curved patches with 1 small picture on them. We give them out for attending Pack meetings & Pack/Den Activities. Our guys wear them on the back of their red patch vest. They form rings around the circular council patch in the center of the back.

 

Other councils have specific criteria for earning each segment. Some wear them on their shirt pockets.

 

Here are some from Welsh Industries :

 

http://www.welshind.com/seg1.htm

 

 

[Lisabob]

Dan, rocker segments are 1/4 inch patches with various designs and no standard requirements to earn them. There are at least a couple hundred different ones. As a DL I used to pick these up as cheap (approx .40 each) instant recognitions of things we had done in the den meetings. Boys usually put them on their red vests in a circle, using some other patch as the center piece.

 

Some councils set requirements for certain segments, but I think that's unusual. Here's a link to the Grand Teton Council page which includes pictures of a few of these patches. http://www.grandtetoncouncil.org/index.cfm?pageid=1379

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[Prairie_Scouter]

Sorry, Dan, as I was typing that in, I figured somebody would ask about it. There is a "brag vest program" that is unofficial as far as BSA goes, but it is supported by many Councils. The Cub Scouts start with a red vest (either purchased at the Scout Shop or parent-made using easily available patterns on the 'Net) and a circle patch on the back. The segments are curved patches that make ever growing circles around the patch. Everyone seems to have their own standards for how a Scout earns them, although from everyone I talk to, the idea seems to be "the more the merrier". Should be much easier to attain than the "sanctioned" awards. It seems like every Council has their own source for the segments. About a year ago, there was a rumor in our Council that the National Supply Division was going to take over supplying the segments until we found out that their cost was going to be quite a bit more than what we were paying. Not sure what exactly happened, but we're still getting segments and they're still the same price.

[Torveaux]

We pay for everything that the boys actually earn. Beltloops, patches, etc.

 

We do not however pay for redundant items: 2nd beltloop, replacements, etc.

 

Each boy gets the neckerchief and book for the next year at crossover. Web IIs get the BS handbook and neckerchief if not already provided by the Troop.

 

We have some activity patches for special events that are merely attended, but most involve service (Scouting for Food).

 

If we had the segment thing, we would pay for it as well.

 

We also usually present each boy that crosses over with a token gift. (things like hiking staves, whistle/compass keyrings, etc.)

 

Blue and Gold is a cafeteria style dinner with catered Chicken/Pizza and desserts.

 

Sorry, mbscoutmom, but either the money is going out elsewhere or you are not taking anything in through a fundraiser.

[mbscoutmom]

"Sorry, mbscoutmom, but either the money is going out elsewhere or you are not taking anything in through a fundraiser. "

 

We're getting some from fundraisers but not enough. That's why we had to start charging dues. I'm trying to find ways to lower the dues by cutting back on expenses. None of the responses to my question have mentioned buying patches for adult leaders, and that's one place I think we can cut back. We also just had a very successful family campout that cost about half what it did last year.

 

[scoutpacific]

Our boys pay dues to the den. What are your dues? We don't buy the books. We buy all the awards, but not redundants. We only use segments supported by council, so that limits those hugely. Our segments are worn as in the temporary patch position on the right pocket per council. My opinion is that the segments should be for participating at least at the pack, district, or council level. But that is what I have experienced. Up in Portland, OR they go crazy with all kinds of segments. No one wears a patch vest in our pack. We have a shoebox, scrapbook, or patch blanket.

[Torveaux]

Adult awards/patches...

 

The Council buys the square knots for those who earn them. The only participation patches for adults are for things like Webelos Jamboree and such. Those are included with the price of the campout. Each individual is responsible for paying for their own camping costs, but we just started a program where each boy can keep part of his popcorn sales profit aside for such expenses. Adults would still need to pay their portion.

 

The 'trained' and position patches for leaders are paid for by the Pack, though some of us buy our own anyway.

 

We had around 30 boys and they sold enough popcorn that we took in about $4500 in profit. Each boy's goal was $200 in sales and all but 1 or 2 made it. The average boy sold about $375 worth. I know my son did fairly well, just over $500, but he could have done much better if not for some family obstacles to getting out there.

 

That is our only fundraiser. We have considered a spring popcorn sale as well, but that would put even more of the profit into the boys' individual accounts for camping and uniform stuff at the scout shop.

 

For things like a family campout, the Pack would only pay things like a fee to hold the campsite. Otherwise those attending split the costs among them. We do a bowling outing every year as a Pack and the Pack negotiates a good deal with an alley, but everyone pays their own way (hardship cases aside). We are hoping to be able to have the Pack pay for more of this type of thing out of Pack funds as we become more fiscally sound.

[mbscoutmom]

"We had around 30 boys and they sold enough popcorn that we took in about $4500 in profit."

 

Our 30 boys didn't do that well. We'll have about $1000 profit if we sell the leftover popcorn. We even offered better prizes and money in the scout's account this year. I don't know how else to motivate them. It wasn't that hard for my sons to sell $400 worth. We spent a Sunday afternoon asking people in the neighborhood, called the relatives, and my husband sold some more at work.