Difficult Parent/Arrow of Light

[treasurermom]

I need help with a touchy issue. I'm the treasurer of our pack. I am collecting dues for our recharter. We have the parent of one of our Webelos II who doesn't want to pay dues for 2006 because her son will be bridging to Boy Scouts in April. Our committee voted not prorate dues for Web. II scouts. Our dues are high - $75 per year - but that covers everything and we are a large pack and give out lots of awards. I did a budget analysis and that's what we need to get by next year with enough money to cover all our expenses.

 

Anyway, this boy has almost met is AOL requirements. His dues are paid through December 31st. His mom does not want to pay for next year but she wants him to be able to come back and do the AOL ceremony with the other boys in March or April. This is not a matter of money or we would offer a scholarship - she is just a difficult parent.

 

Here's my question (we have conflicting opinions in our pack). Since the boy will not be a registered BSA member, can he come back and participate? Can we hold a separate ceremony for him before 12/31?

 

Thanks for your input!

[Eamonn]

I'm not sure that I understand the math?

Is the pack asking $75.00 for a Lad to remain in the Pack from January till April. Sounds kinda high to me.

I don't think my answer is going to be of much help. But here goes.

While we tend to wait till the B&G Banquet or plan a big crossing over ceremony, this isn't the same as the Arrow of Light ceremony. Most packs wait and present this to all the Webelos Scouts at the same time. This is the norm and it works. However being as Cub Scouts advance as individuals, they should be able to receive any awards that they have earned very soon after they have earned them. Not having to wait for the big ceremony.

If he isn't a member of the BSA it would seem a little silly giving him a BSA award.

If he has already joined the Troop, there would be no need for a Bridging ceremony.

You don't say how old the Lad is?

If he were my son and had earned the AOL and was old enough to go into the Troop, I would ask that he be given the award and I would get him into the Troop ASAP and save the $75.00 That $75.00 would go a long way in helping to buy his uniform.

Being as the purpose of Cub Scouting is to prepare Boys to become Boy Scouts, I see this $75.00 as a very unnecessary hurdle. I fail to see how you can ask a family to pay this for 3 months.

Eamonn.

[Lisabob]

Many packs pro-rate their dues for boys who join mid-way through the year and for graduating Webelos IIs.

 

For this particular parent, I guess your level of flexibility depends on the following:

1. If you agree to some sort of reduction for him, how many other current W II boys will you need to do the same for, and specifically, how would that impact your pack's budget?

2. Do you want to have a disgruntled family leaving the pack? Depending on your recruiting situation it might be better long term to try to accomodate this person's request if it can be done in a reasonable manner.

3. Could the boy actually join a troop right now and would that be a good thing for him? Assuming he has met the basic requirements (10 yo and AoL or 11+yo I think, but double check the webelos book to be sure), you'd probably also want to talk with the parent and the prospective SM. Some boys are probably as ready in Nov. as they will be in the spring when you do your B&G. Others mature a lot during those intervening months and probably would struggle even more if they joined early. Some are more concerned about staying with their class-aged peers than others, too. Depends on the boy, the family, the troop.

 

Having him leave the pack in Dec. and then come back in April for the cross over doesn't seem right. If he wants to stay, he should pay something in dues (though perhaps not full rate). If he has his AOL completed and wants to join a troop now, great but then he's not a Cub Scout anymore. Maybe he can come back with the troop to help at the cross-over, but from the troop's side of things.

 

Good luck with this one.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[Cubmaster Mike]

We pro-rate dues for Web2s but not too much. ($25 verses $50) Arrow of Light is one of our most expensive ceremonies!

 

Our rule is simple. After a certain date, no dues-no awards. Sux for the Cubs but the parents get the point and we have never had to get to that step.

 

We work out payments if necessary, but free-loading is not allowed.

 

CMM

[Torveaux]

I would not say it is a difficult parent, I think the Committee made a bad decision. Our dues are $35 this year up from $25 last year. That is still less than half of your Pack. We pay for all awards and do not have artificial limits on the boys. The cost per boy is about $90. The remaining money is all made by one popcorn sale in the fall. Parents can opt out of the popcorn sale by making up the difference, but even in our relatively well off (financially) community, few exercise that option. Selling something is good for the boys and helps build their confidence.

 

I agree with most of Eamonn's post, I would suggest however that if he is coming for a bridging ceremony he is perhaps joining a Troop and would still be a BSA member. Even if he is not moving on, he earned the award as a member of the BSA and should still receive it. If a baseball player retires at the end of the season he still gets any awards (MVP and such) earned during that season.

[treasurermom]

I guess I need to give a few more details in this situation. I really appreciate the feedback.

 

This boy is currently in his third den in our pack. None of the issues that made him change dens were with the boy (although he's really immature and does have some behavior issues). It's really the mom that has problems. We have tried our best over the last few years to keep things calm and under control but she is really difficult to work with. It is not that they can't afford the money.

 

I don't know if a troop would accept him now. He just turned 10 a few weeks ago and as I said he's really immature. He went on a troop visit and claimed the Boy Scouts picked on him during a game (my son and his friends had a fabulous time and none of them saw anything). I don't know that he really wants to go on to Boy Scouts but his mom really wants him to.

 

We have three other packs in our area and none of them prorate dues since Arrow of Light and the Webelos badges are big expenses. With BSA registration/Boys Life being $22 per year, that leaves us with about $50 per boy for expenses. We are spending about $500 per month on awards for a 65-member pack. We live in Southern California where prices are sky-high, and this year we have to pay for the rental of the meeting room at our school. Our charter, a church, does not have a building where we can meet. We also have 18 Webelos II who will be bridging so prorating the dues for them would really hit our budget. We do sell popcorn but do not enough raise enough money to offset the dues much. We pay for Pinewood derby cars, track and room rental, help pay for our Blue and Gold banquet, and we pay for several big outings for the boys during the year.

 

Our committee discussed this issue twice and both times voted not to prorate.

 

I feel really bad for the boy being caught in the middle of this, but our CM is really firm that he feels we need to stand tough.

 

BTW - this woman has already signed her younger son up with another pack (they would not take the older boy) but since her registration with our pack is good through December she is doing things with both packs.

 

[LongHaul]

So often in this organization the youth are forced to suffer for their parents. The bottom line is that if the boy isn't registered it is actually against BSA Regulations to award him any BSA rank or recognition. He can not join a troop LEGALLY until he has earned the AOL and is 10 1/2 (unless he has completed fifth grade). So if the parent won't pay to re-register for another term the boy is no longer registered after December and thus inelegable to participate. Holding an AOL for him in December is up to the Pack Committee.

LongHaul

[Eamonn]

Maybe you need to explain to the parent that:

1/ $10.00 will go to National for the annual membership fee and when the time comes he will move into the Troop for $1.00 transfer fee.

I of course don't know when your Council recharters or how they do it. There is a way of transferring a Lad from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts for only $1.00 if the Troops in the Council charter before th Cub Scouts do. In which case there is no $10.00 membership fee. However the Cub Scouts must still be on the Pack charter.

We have things set up this way in our Council.

2/While I really like Boy's Life Magazine, I have never seen it as my place to spend other peoples hard earned cash. Are you sure he wants Boy's Life?

3/ A Webelos Scout earns 20 pins. When I was a Webelos Scout Den Leader, it seemed that they earned about one a month, of course there were months when they didn't earn any and months when they received two. We presented these at the monthly pack meeting. When the Pack budget was done we knew that we would spend approx the cost of 15 pins per Scout, along with the Webelos Badge and a couple of compass pionts. I seem to remember that the pins cost $1.75 each.

The budget for second year Webelos Scouts was only 5 pins and the AOL patch. I don't know what the patch costs but lets go with $3.00 for the patch and $8.75 for the pins.

4/ Pinewood Deby? Car $4.00 prizes for a pack of 65? Say $2.50 per Cub.

We sold pop and hot dogs at our race and made money.

5/ Banquet costs? We had a covered dish and a cake competition and used the church hall but lets go with $7.50 per Cub Scout.

I don't know what outings packs do in the winter months?

Still I'm only coming up with $35.75.

I'm sorry I really think that the pack committe needs to take a long hard look at this.

Why should a Lad who is only going to be in the pack for 3 or 4 of the less active months pay the same as a Lad who is going to be there for the full year?

Eamonn.

[LongHaul]

Sorry folks was speaking from memory and forgot the age requirement was just changed. You can join boy scouts at 10 if you have earned the AOL. The boy can join a troop if he completes the AOL requirements.

LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[ScoutNut]

Do you charge new boys who join in September $75 and then another $75 when you recharter in January? If you do, I'm suprised any of them stay. If you don't, & you prorate the dues from Sept to Jan, why is it ok to prorate at the beginning of their Pack membership & not at the end?

 

If this boy earns his AOL before 12/31, he deserves just as big & expensive a ceremony in December as the other boys will get in March or April. If he decides to crossover to a Boy Scout Troop after receiving his AOL, he deserves just as nice of a Crossover ceremony in December, as the other boys will get when they are ready to cross in March or April. After all, he has already paid his dues & he should get his money's worth while he is still registered.

 

Making a boy wait 3 or 4 months to get the recognition he has earned & deserves is VERY MUCH against BSA policy. We won't EVEN go into the fact that your Pack wants to tell this boy that not only must he wait 3 to 4 months for his recognition, but in order to receive it 3 to 4 months late he must pay $75!!

 

 

[FScouter]

I think the committee would be hard pressed to explain the logic of why boys should pay for 12 months of Scouting, when the program for the den ends after 3 months.

[SemperParatus]

"This is not a matter of money or we would offer a scholarship - she is just a difficult parent."

 

Punishing a ten year old boy because folks don't like his mom does not sound like a good thing to me. You say its not about money, so register him and give him his award at the AOL ceremoney in April.

 

Kindness begets kindness. Someone always needs to make the first effort, why not you?

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

treasurermom,

 

I feel for you and understand the difficulty you face. Be careful against making assumptions about what others can/can't afford though. It may be the case that this family wouldn't miss another $75 but then again, maybe not. They may have circumstances you aren't aware of. Even if they can afford it though, $75 is $75 and they're within their right to ask. Are there any people with boys in the Webelos II program on your committee? If so, how did they feel about this? If not, I wonder if they'd still vote against pro-rating if they had to pay $75 for 3 months of pack program, and then pay again when their boy joins a troop.

 

AoL/B&G can be expensive. However given the way you're describing your budget situation I wonder if you're providing more glitz than you can afford? I've seen amazing B&Gs done for very little money. I've also seen very expensive ones where only the parents appreciated what was provided, it was totally above the boys' heads.

 

One last thought, I know of a few packs who deal with the expense of webelos program (and yes, those pins/patches/beltloops, etc. add up) by setting aside a small amount of the dues the boys paid when they were wolves or bears. That money is then added to their webelos den when they get to that rank. The rationale used by these packs was that, per boy, it is usually cheaper to provide a program for the Tigers/Wolves/Bears than for the Webelos. Rather than asking current T/W/B families to subsidize the current Webelos they set it up so families help fund the webelos program their own boys will be in, a year or two down the road. Of course some boys drop out before webelos and others join as webelos but as long as you have a reasonably stable enrollment it seems to work ok.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[EagleInKY]

Our Web 2 dues are slightly less as well. They are not pro-rated, however. In addition to the normal AoL regalia, we give them a Boy Scout Handbook and a gift when they crossover. So, we easily spend the money on them during the year.

 

Also, the point about the fact that the pack pays for their entire year of BSA registration is important to point out. Some troops do not charge anything for scouts when they bridge, others charge a fee. I know it varies. So, this could be the only fees they pay for the year.

 

That said, $75 does seem a little high.

[scoutldr]

My opinion...pro rate the dues for all (perhaps monthly dues with a free month if paid yearly in a lump sum)...and sell more popcorn! Also, sounds like your Pack needs to trim expenses...never heard of having to "rent" a PWD track. In my district, most Packs have their own, and those that don't borrow from other packs. Those electronic gizmos are nice, but not necessary.