Let the Races Begin! (or How to Minimize the Damage)

[LilBearCub]

The year before, I started with my Tiger Den our Pack had three inactive boys. Now I lead Webelos and our Pack has over 50 boys -- more than 1/3 of the boys in the whole school! Yay!!!!

 

Up to now, we have been functioning very informally with a Cubmaster and three or four Leaders in a school with very little parent support. We have been able to avoid many of the problems of more competitive Packs because of the poor economic level.

 

This year, we were excited to get a Pack Committee. It is a very NEW group of people and our Unit Commissioner (who managed to get put on the committee as Activities and Advancements Chairperson) is able to run things through with no resistance. He also put his son on the committee as a "Member" so he can rally his support to push through his plans.

 

Ignoring this slight breach of ethics (remembering all the while to put BOY issues over ADULT issues), we held a Raingutter Regatta. The Committee Member had built a catamaran for his Wolf son -- looked like a pro had built it. It won everything. It was obvious to everyone the boy had done nothing on the boat -- not even the painting.

 

Parents and crying boys complained to me (because I've been there so long they all know me) -- they thought the boys were supposed to put the kits together themselves (which had been the rules announced at the Pack Meeting before). The appeal of the Regatta is the many boys with no home support can put together a boat alone without knowing how to align wheels or weigh the item in order to compete.

 

I later learned that the UC and son had suggested that there be no rules on how to build the boat. He already had built the catamaran. My Webelos (the ones that are NOT in 5th Grade) have refused to participate in anymore Regattas. Three of them won't do the Pinewood because "he'll just do the same thing there!"

 

Now we are gearing up for the Pinewood Derby and I'd like to prevent the similar issue. I know there will ALWAYS be parents like this. Unfortunately, this is allegedly a former Eagle Scout who laughed when he told me he had boat and car plans prepared for the next 12 years!

 

What is the least damaging way to 1) Reduce the possibility of this happening again and 2) explain to the boys that the morals we are teaching them are still important ("HE cheated, so should we!")

[FScouter]

A unit commissioner should be an impartial 3rd party whose job it is to advise, assist, and be a source of information. He should NOT be a leader of the units he serves.

 

The son must be 21 years or older to serve as a committee member.

[LilBearCub]

Sorry -- I didn't make it clear.

 

UC is on the committee as Activities and Advancements Chair.

 

HIS son is on the committee as a Committee Member and is the one creating the beautiful Regatta and Derby crafts. He is probably 27.

 

The UC's GRANDSON is the Wolf Cub

 

[nldscout]

PWD and RGR rules are normally pretty cut and dried. You must use the official BSA Kits. Boy must make the racer under supervision.

 

Set the Rules now befor time goes on any further. If he shows up with an adult made car, quietly ask the scout how he made such a lovely car. If he indicates Dad or Grandpa built it, simply just disqualify it.

 

Set the Rules, make sure they know them, then enforce them fully.

 

One thing you can do is have an adults division, so that they can build thier own cars and compete against the other adults. We do this with no rules except for no engines, no heavier than 10 oz, and must fit on the track.

[ScoutNut]

Your CM, CC & COR need to step up & start doing their jobs. The CC & COR are the ones who should be recruiting committee members, not the UC (& FScouter is correct, ideally a UC should NOT have ties to the unit(s) he serves). Your CM also needs to put his foot down about program & Pack meeting issues.

 

To lessen the "dad made" issue, have race rules written out with "boy made only" in bold, very large type! Make sure that everyone in the Pack gets a copy. Maybe you could hold an adults only race for the dad made entries.

 

Your Pack should also stress the fun side of the race & not just the winner side. Do a theme race like sports, cartoons, nature. Have the car/boat made or decorated to look like something in the theme (football, sponge bob, acorn, etc). It's hard to be fast when it looks like a tennis racket! Have a "Best of Show" prize & pick the car/boat that most look like it was made by a boy/dad TEAM. Give out 1st, 2nd, 3rd places, but also make sure everyone else gets acknowledged for their hard work with some kind of award (ribbon, certificate, etc). Involve the BOYS, not the parents, by having only the boy touch his car/boat after it is logged in.

 

 

[LilBearCub]

Great ideas, and many thanks. The parent races sound fun -- Pack can't afford to supply cars for all of them, but may be something to present to the committee to let parents/siblings BUY their own! I want to SEE the Tennis Racket car!!!!

 

Now -- any ideas on approaching the COR to step up to the plate? Whose job is it? I've tried to step back and not "butt in" since we Den Leaders have been running it up to now -- don't want the new committee to feel like they are powerless. If it is the new CC's job, he's already the puppet of the UC because the UC sounds very knowledgable.

 

Also, whose job is it to tell the UC to step out of the spotlight?

 

After Woodbadge, I feel like I understand Boy Scouts better than my own Cubs!! LOL

[SemperParatus]

The UC should not be on your pack committee. The CC/COR can either invite him to resign from the committee and continue to serve as your UC, or keep him on the committee and ask the District for a new UC to be assigned to your pack. From your post, I get the impression that you think the UC may be throwing his weight/position around to get whatever he wants. That may be the case, or it may not; however, his dual role as UC and MC could certainly create opportunities for him to appear to get his way, especially with a brand new committee deferring to his knowledge and experience.

 

As for the PWD/RGR, the rules as to parent participation should be established by pack leadership, communicated clearly/often and enforced strictly. Pack workshops can be helpful to make sure that boys are indeed doing some work on their cars. Separate races for adults can sometimes help. A few packs have completely canned the competitive element of the race. The CC/CM may want to have a serious talk with the adult in question now to set the stage for expectations. If he seems to not be interested in talking about it, then the decision would need to be made as to whether to ban the family from participation, unless they abide with the established participation rules. If the UC decides to enter the fray on behalf of his son, then that would be a perfect opportunity to can him from the committee and future service as UC to your pack.

 

The PWD has been bringing out 'cheaters' (or at least overzealous parents) for nearly half a century now. You can try and minimize it, but you will not necessarily prevent it. PWD season is a perfect time to talk sportsmanship to your den. In this life there are those that win and those that lose. Many times, it is hard to tell which is which until much later.

[FScouter]

If your unit commissioner is doing more than advising, to the detriment of your unit, have a conversation with the district commissioner and let him know your commissioner is interfering with the operation of the unit.

 

If instead you have a committee member, the Cubmaster and committee chair need to demonstrate leadership themselves and set the expectations for the duties and responsibilities for the committee members. Refer to the Cub Scout Leader book for help.

[CA_Scouter]

Is it any wonder the Pinewood Derby is scheduled around Halloween?

 

Be afraid, be very afraid.

 

My suggestion: RUN, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!

 

:-)

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Many years ago, when I took over as Cubmaster, I had heard about how competitive our pack was. I was a little apprehensive. I made a big point to make sure parents knew that I expected them to behave. I also took some steps to take as many human factors out of the equation (electronic eye finish line, no adult relatives of a boy currently racing was allowed in the track area, etc.). We also had a workshop day where kids could come and get help with their car. These things helped level the playing field and made it a more fun event.

 

We also do the "open class", our rules are that it can't use any form of engine, must be under a certain height (finish line limitation) and must not harm the track or other cars in any way.

[resqman]

Our Pack explains the rules at the two previous Pack meetings before the race. We post the rules on the Pack website. We post 3 dozen car plans as well as speed building tips on the Pack website. We hold 2 or 3 car building sessions where the Pack provides power tools and experienced tool users to help the boys. Many of our Dens also hold car building sessions, either as a den activity or seperate session.

 

Cars are submitted the night before the race. We allow a 2 hour window to turn in cars. We weigh and measure each car. Cars that are under/over weight are returned and allowed to be modified repeatedly until it meets weight or we close Check In. The car is checked for non-BSA wheels and axles. Unoffical wheels and axles can be replaced with BSA wheels and be resubmitted before Check In closes. The Pack normally has a hot glue gun, a chisel, a handful of weights, and a few wheels and axles we share with those who need last minute parts. The cars are then stored overnight with only the "race officals" having access. Basically we put them in a cardboard box and lock them in a room at the church.

 

Last year the Pack invested in a new track, timer, and software. The software builds the brackets based on input from the race offical. Things like number of cars, number of times the cars should race, etc. We have the Tigers race against themselves, Wolfs against the Bears, and Webelos I and II against themselves. The fastest car in each of the three divisions race for overall fastest.

 

We set it up so that each car gets to race at least once on each lane of our 4 lane track. That eliminated the fast lane, slow lane complaint. The software built brackets so that in each race, every car raced against 3 cars it had not already raced there by eliminating the I did not get a chance to race against enough cars complaint. Also by running 4 races for each car regardless of ranking, each boy got ample chance to see his car compete.

 

The software displays the time of each car in the race to 1000th of a second. The software recieves feed from the track release gate and the laser eye at the end of the track. The software records the times for every car on every race. You can either declare a winner based on total combined time for all races run or fastest average of all races run. Last year we choose combined total.

 

We use a projector and display the race results immediately on the wall 8 feet wide and 6 feet tall. Everyone in the hall sees everyones times immediately. The software also displays fastest time to date as a constant so everyone knows who has the fastest run of the day.

 

We have the boys place the car on the track and then an adult centers each car on the lane to ensure all are as straight as possible. The boys must shake hands with the other competitors before the race starts to show sportsmanship. It is apparent to all competitors and spectators that we have removed as much human error as possible. Last year was a rousing success. Our Pack also ran the District derby a month or two later.

 

The complaint we recieved from parents at the District Derby was that each car ran too many times and they had to spend 2 hours at the mall watching the Derby. I did not hear a single boy complain that his car ran too many times.

 

The track, software, and timer cost about $1400. The Pack has around 50 members and has been around almost 50 years. We had a surplus in the savings account and felt it was time for a new track since the old wooden track definitely had a fast lane, slow lane, and broken lane. The old timer worked intermittently and we relied on the eye of an adult for final declaration of winner. The brackets were posted on a poster board. We had a number of complaints.

 

Even with two or three people inspecting cars at turn in, we still missed a car that had non-BSA wheels and axles, and another car that had shaved wheels. We try to be as through as possible but we are human and miss items. The shaved wheels were very evident after running a few times because the graphite stuck to the wheels in a pattern that showed where they touched the track and where they did not.

 

We had one boy that missed turn in the night before and wanted to turn in the day of the race. The den leader was consulted and he had made a point of mentioning turn in rules in den meetings, had sent email to the parents that week, as well as being mentioned in the Pack meetings and on the website. We allowed the boy to run in the Derby but was ineligible for any awards. He got to see his car run which we felt was important. The leaders veiwed this as a problem with the parent meeting deadlines more than the boy unaware of the deadlines based on the circumstances and knowing the family.

 

We award 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place trophies for speed in bracket, craftsmanship in bracket, creativity in bracket, as well as overall fastest. Last year we had a parent who was able to get donations from auto parts dealers and distributors of Nascar posters, hats, model cars, etc. and these were awarded via a random drawing.

 

Craftsmanship is a tricky award. Some cars obviously had lots of adult help. Some cars are obviously made mostly by the boy. Some cars are just shinning examples of paint and/or design.

 

Even so with 50 odd boys, 9 trophies per bracket, 3 brackets, almost half the boys get a trophy. Some may have won the random drawing for prizes. All recieve a patch. I think it is important for the boys to learn about trying to Do Your Best and see that your are not guarented to be a winner. Competition has been removed from so many childhood events, they have developed a feeling that they are owed everything in life.

[LilBearCub]

Wow! What FABULOUS ideas from everyone! I appreceiate the clarification on Committees and Race suggestions!

 

Thanks resqman for all the details! We don't have the money for the software investment, but we can implement some of the ideas!

 

We can do the night-before check-in session would keep us from rushing through that and maybe even a workshop or two.

 

Now just a little nudging of the COR/DE/CM and we'll be in fine shape!

 

Thanks for all the input! I knew I could count on this group!

[jens3sons]

Maybe have a heat titled "Big Boy, Big Girl"? It would be a heat for the parents to race their own car. Our pack also has a "Little Brother, Little Sister" heat for the siblings of the scout.

[resqman]

Someone sent me email asking for more information about which track, software, timer we purchased.

 

I posted that information last year in a topic title PINEWOOD DERBY BLUES.

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=86284&p=2

It is in the last reply.

[Herms]

There is a new movie coming out soon called "Down and Derby". It is a family comedy about a small-town Pinewood Derby competition, where the kids' competitive dads take over their cars.

 

When you are passing out the cars and rules for your Pinewood Derby, be sure to emphasize that this is a parent son activity (as is the Raingutter regatta). In Cub Scouts its about the family ties that are formed while doing activities. My sons and I have made some beautiful (and fast) cars over the years TOGETHER.

 

Our pack has a couple of workshops for both sons and parents (we require both to be present) which helps them get the ball rolling on there cars, and shows them how they can work with their sons instead of doing it for them.

 

Additionally, at our pinewood derby we make sure EVERY boy wins. Last year I had to come up with 60 categories! Everything from Most Original Design, to Tallest Car, to Greenest Car. Each boy got a participation medal at the time they got there certificate so that they felt like they won something.

 

We also gave 1st, 2nd and 3rd trophies for Best in Show and had grandparents do the judging (as they usually dont know who or what there grandsons car looks like).

 

No one was allowed to win both a Speed trophy and a Best in Show, so the awards got spread out among more boys.