Must you have an "official" uniform to salute the flag?

[mariewendan]

Hello-

I was told my our committee chairperson that if the boys were in our pack T-shirts, that was considered a uniform and they could solute the flag- I was under the impression it must be official uniform in order to salute.... any thoughts?

Thanks!

[BrentAllen]

The Ceremonies for Dens and Packs booklet states that Scouts in uniform should salute. It does not state they must be in Class A's to salute.

I have friends who are in the Army, who salute during the presentation of Colors or the pledge while wearing BDU pants and an Army t-shirt. That is there uniform of the day; I consider our Class B (Pack t-shirt and Scout short/pants) to be the same. So yes, I instruct our Scouts to salute when wearing the Pack t-shirt uniform.

[ScoutNut]

Actually, you should salute the flag no matter what it is you are wearing. The question should be weather to salute using the Cub/Boy Scout Salute or to simply put your right hand over your heart.

 

While in a BSA uniform (A, B, C, etc) you should salute using a BSA salute. Anyone else should salute using the hand over the heart salute.

 

Practice at your Den meeting flag ceremonies.

 

 

[Trevorum]

ScoutNut,

 

Thank you for teaching me that the hand-over-heart is considered a "civilian salute". I did not know that! Wikipedia has a good article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salute#Civilian_Salutes) discussing various salutes. Of considerable interest to me was learning of the "Bellamy Salute", which was the official civilian salute in the United States until 1942. Based on the ancient Roman salute, it was replaced in the United States with our current hand-over-heart because of similarity to the Nazi salute.

[Sparkie]

At summer camp, we inform the scouts our "official" uniform is a troop t-shirt, and we use the (BSA) salute.

 

However, i'd like to note that if we were at a troop meeting and a scout forgot his scout shirt and wore his t-shirt instead, i would expect him to use "hand over heart" since the t-shirt is not the official uniform of the evening.

[FScouter]

The uniform is defined by BSA. Variations adopted formally or informally by individual units or unit leaders are uniform components. Terms like class a, b, c have no universal definition.

[madkins007]

We have always gone with the 'official field uniform' standard for Scout salutes. Admittedly, I cannot find anything in print, but the BSA 'activity' uniform is not really 'THE' BSA uniform, as described in the Insignia Guide and elsewhere.

[Hunt]

I think if a scout is "in uniform," including the activity uniform, he can salute.

One caveat: I personally don't think a scout should keep a non-scouting hat on his head when saluting or reciting the pledge. Even if he's otherwise in uniform, a non-scouting hat is not part of the uniform, and as such, should be removed as any other hat.

[mariewendan]

Wow- the responses are so varied, I am still not sure what to do. Obviously if they are in the T-shirt- I would have them at least put their hand over their heart, but to have them do the cub scout salute somehow feels wrong if they are not in the offical cub scout uniform. However, like others- I cannot find anything in print saying that- so I have no basis for my feelings...I guess I'll just have to go along w/ my committee chairperson's "rules" and have all scouts salute with the cub scout salute whether in a uniform or in a pack T-shirt.

 

Thanks everyone!!!

[Sparkie]

Welcome to the world of Scouting.... LOTS of gray areas!

[EagleInKY]

I'm of the opinion that the "class B" (activity uniform) is a "uniform", thus scouts can salute when wearing it. Of course, to be picky, it's only an "activity uniform" if the shorts and socks are worn with it. Otherwise, he's just wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

[FScouter]

"...I guess I'll just have to go along w/ my committee chairperson's 'rules' "

 

Maybe you could tell the CC you'd like to know more about this and to point you to the book and page where that rule is found.

 

The publications define the uniform including the activity uniform. The publications describe how to salute while wearing the uniform. What else is there to know?

 

A t-shirt is not a uniform, it's only a t-shirt. The only "gray area" is how far does one deviate from the program before feeling guilty.

[fgoodwin]

Welcome, Marie!

 

This is an interesting thread.

 

I note that you started this thread with a question about your Cub Scout Pack. As someone else has said, youth (and adults) salute when in uniform. If not in uniform, you don't salute -- you place your hand over your heart.

 

So the question becomes, what is the "uniform"? Luckily, for Cub Scouts (and Cub Scout leaders), there's no ambiguity or grey area.

 

The Cub Scout Leader Book defines the uniform in ch12. The uniform is blue pants & shirts, or green pants and tan shirts (with an optional yellow blouse and blue skirt for ladies). It says nothing about "activity" uniforms, or t-shirts (except for Tigers, and even that is obsolete -- see latest CS Leader Book). So for Cub Scouts, Pack t-shirts are not considered part of uniform. And so you don't salute in a pack t-shirt.

 

Boy Scouts may be different, because I believe their literature actually defines a "field" uniform and an "activity" uniform. But your question was specifically for a Pack -- and Cub Scout literature makes no such distinction.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Fred Goodwin, UC

Alamo Area Council

[briantshore]

If they are in half a uniform ie. jeans and scout shirt, do they give half a salute? Something to think about. As for as wearing the headgear, I always follow the pattern from my military days. Hats off indoors. Hats on outside.

[FScouter]

From the Insignia Guide - the official hat may be worn indoors during a flag ceremony except in a church where custom forbids. For informal indoor activities, the hat should be removed as when in street clothes.

 

The is no such thing as half a uniform. Youre either wearing it or youre not.