I, Emily, promise to do my best...

[EagerLeader]

Welcome to the group!

 

I am in a similar situation, so I feel your pain. Our Pack's other Bear DL quit, and we recruited 5 new boys so I have one den of 13 (with 2 special needs) boys. I have approached the CM about splitting the group, but all I get is "well, let's see if you can make it work with parents helping you." After 2 den meetings, I am positive this won't work.

 

FScouter is right, it's the CM and CC's job to do this, but I get the impression that unless I make this happen, it won't. I'm splitting the group myself and informing the CM later. I nearly walked out of my first meeting because I had to break up two arguments and a fistfight nearly erupted. Where were the parents? Sitting and chatting, and they looked up on shock when I announced to the boys that I will not tolerate this behavior and if it happens again there will be no more Scouts for the entire group because I will quit.

 

Stand your ground and make the split happen yourself if you have to. We both need all the support we can get!

 

EL

[Torveaux]

FScouter is right in concept but not in terms of roles.

 

It is the responsibility of the Committee Chair and the COR with input from the Cubmaster to form dens and recruit leaders. It is the Cubmaster's job to see that the leaders get resources and training.

 

Either way, I would never take a den of more than 9 boys. Once it hits 10, it is really time to split in two. 20 boys could be as many as 4 dens. Realistically, you should have 3 dens.

 

There are as many ways to split them up as there are people to come up with ideas. I would try to stick to keeping core groups of friends together as much as possible. They are more likely to continue if their friends are on board.

 

Your only real position must be to firmly but politely tell the CC that you cannot serve more than x boys. Only you can really define x, but the program is not designed to handle more than 8 or so per den. It is his/her job to source among the existing parents or other individuals for a new leader(s).

 

By trying to serve all 20 boys, you will end up serving none.

[cubmaster3947]

I support all of the above, and add a couple of my own observations.

 

As a CM, I face this situation durn near every year...this year at 3 levels (Tigers, Bears, & Web I). Most parents will play "chicken" with you. You say "I'm splitting this Den if no one steps up" and they don't step up because they think you won't actually do it. You've got to be dead serious, no bluffing. If no one steps up, draw names from a hat & don't apologize for it. You can provide a quality program for 8, or a crappy program for 20. Not a difficult decision.

 

Here's how I handle it: In addition to the behind the scenes lobbying of the parents I REALLY want, I typically send out a serious of three emails to families. #1 reads something like "Hey, we need a DL...can't provide a quality program with a Den this large, great opportunity to influence the lives of young boys, fun, etc." #2 reads "Hey, no response yet...if someone doesn't step up, I'll be forced to draw names." #3 reads "Still no reply, I'm not kidding & will be drawing names on Wednesday @ 6:00pm." And if no one steps up by then, I WILL draw the names. It would break my heart, but I'll turn boys away before I'll let unresponsive, uninterested parents destroy the program. Fortunately, I've never had to actually draw...someone always calls me on Wednesday @ 5:45pm.

 

I've had a couple of parents confront me with "Oh, how can you do this to the boys!?!?!" My response..."I'm not doing it to them...you are."

 

Stand your ground...you're in the right. Good luck!

 

mark

[FScouter]

"In addition to the behind the scenes lobbying of the parents I REALLY want..."

 

That approach is what works. SELECT the adult you want, then sell them on the job and recruit them. As you found out the e-mail 1,2,3 approach doesn't work, or at best you wind up with an adult that doesn't feel wanted and may be worse than nothing.

[erksh]

UPDATE!

 

As of our Leader Meeting last night, the den will be split.

 

My CC and CM are handling the meeting next week. I, thankfully, will not be a part of it (the actual split and choosing a new leader).

 

It is being presented as a Pack Comittee decision in order to be in compliance with the program.

 

What a relief!

 

I am sure that it will be UGLY though. These parents DON'T want this.

 

Thanks for the good advice and the warm welcome!

 

[Hunt]

Actually, the 1,2,3 approach can work. The volunteer you'll get is the person who is already busy with other activities for her kids, and justifiably felt that somebody else should take this on--the person you didn't want to approach because you knew she was already coaching the soccer team, teaching Sunday School, etc. This person will do a good job, too, at least until she burns out and runs away from home.

[cubmaster3947]

Behind the scenes lobbying is certainly my preferred approach, but sometimes it doesn't work. I must admit, though, that the mom I lobbied & failed with last year has volunteered without my even asking THIS YEAR. Guess that's a "delayed" lobbying success! =8^)

 

1...2...3...draw is the method of last resort, but I've had to do it with at least one Den every year. It's sad, but some parents just don't seem to care...

 

mark

[StormingBuffalo]

Emily,

 

Clearly, splitting the den was the right things to do, and the Cubmaster and Committee Chair (I served as Chair for 3 years) should have been involved early on in recruiting den leaders. Another person who could have provided support was the Unit commissioner. While he or she does not run the unit, the commissioner can offer suggestions to the Cubmaster or Chartered Org. Rep. and if the Unit Commissioner is present as support when the Cubmaster and Committee Chair announce the den split, there is greater weight and gravity given to the decision. In a way, it's like when parents tell their kids something, it doesn't sink in, but when a peer says it, all of the sudden, it becomes the only right thing to do.

 

In one of your early messages, you mentioned the importance of setting the right tone in the beginning, especially with Tigers. When I became the Tiger coach (that's a story in itself) all five boys and parents split many of the responsibilities via a sign-in sheet. When we all moved to Wolves, I never told them that the rules about adult partners hadn't changed, meaning they expected to accompany their boys, bring snacks or drinks, or help run the activity we had planned based on the Wolf program. Perhaps that was less than honest, though I assert that it has given all the boys a richer program, and kept the families deeply involved in the den and pack from the beginning.