Unwanted webelo scout/family

[VinceC]

Has anyone come across a cub that no den leader wanted in their den? He is entering his first year in webelos. Over the summer an arguement started between this boy's father and a den mother at cub day camp developed over how he thought his son was treated. The boy can be a problem. He was hitting, spitting, kicking others. My webelos one den leader has quit this year over this summer issue, the boys father, and older brother, a self appointed den chief. They are very over-bearing. The replacement DL is the mother from the summer. She refuses to let this boy and father in the den. The father refuses to be in this den.

I do have one other webelos one den, and the DL has stated that she wants no parts of this family either. I should mention that we are the second pack this family has been to in my town. I spoke with the CM of his old pack and there were unrelated problems with that pack as well, to the point where the local council said the pack did not have to approve the boy's re-registration.

Any suggestions for this first year CM on how to handle the situation?

[bbng]

What is your position in the pack? I ask only because I wonder if you are able to provide support.

 

Considering the reasons given, this boy should does not have to be allowed to participate. As sad and hard as this is, the pack does indeed have the right to refuse the family.

[Oak Tree]

When splitting a den, I've had cases where a boy was clearly not preferred by either of the new den leaders. But they've always sighed and accepted that one of them would have to take the boy (and his parents). I've never had a case as bad as yours, though.

 

The leader book clearly states that "A Scouting unit has the authority to determine its own youth membership on the basis of considerations such as group size or youth behavior..."

 

"The pack committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action, including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the pack. When problem behavior persists, units may revoke the Scout's membership in that pack."

 

My policy is to support my valuable den leaders as much as possible. I'd hate to try to force this boy on them. But you certainly want to make sure your committee agrees with you. I'd talk to the CC and try to get him to handle the problem.

 

Most parts of being CM are better than this.

 

Oak Tree

[VinceC]

I should also add I may loose 4 or more boys in this den if he is allowed to participate. They have yet to re-register pending tthe outcome of this.

[Eamonn]

I really hate the idea that a little fellow can be called an Unwanted Webelos Scout.

However if things are as bad as you say, I make sure that the Pack Committee and the CO (COR) understand the situation and are willing to support any action that is taken.

While you don't have to I would also keep the District Key 3 informed.

I have had upset parents call me (As District Chair.) They tell their side of the story, which at times is very different.

I of course tell them that there is no way I can or will interfere with what is going on in a unit unless it is something that harms a child or is against BSA rules and regulations.

Still if I know what the situation is I don't end up saying something wrong. Heck I do a good enough job of looking like an idiot without any help.

Eamonn.

[Tami the Mom]

I would rather cut loose one family than lose a whole den. If it were as simple as riding out a few more months it might be easier to let him stay, but you are facing another year and a half. That's just too long to expect everyone else to bite their lip or walk on eggshells.

 

A few years ago we faced a similar situation in my own GS troop. I ended up telling our area coordinator that she had to choose- me to stay as leader, or this one girl (and her mother) to stay in the troop. I told her in no uncertain terms I would not be involved with this mother. I stayed.

 

I think it is very important to try to work every angle to see if there is a place for a boy in your pack. But in the end- without leaders, there is no den. And you can't expect volunteers to spend their time with someone who makes everyone so unhappy.

 

I'm sorry you have to make this hard decision. But like Oak Tree said, most parts of being CM are much better than this.

[EagleInKY]

Gee, are we from the same unit? With a couple of minor variations, I've got the exact same situation. I agree that you sometimes have to let someone go for the good of the whole. It's unfortunate that sometimes the kids suffer because of their parents. But, especially in Cub Scouting, it's kind of a package deal.

 

Usually these types, once they've worn out their welcome, will move somewhere else to wreak havok. Make sure your leaders are united. Get your COR and DE involved if you have to "kick him out". Hopefully they'll leave on their own.

 

I'll tell you the same thing I've told our Cubmaster. Hang tough, it will get better. The CM job can be lots of fun. It's unfortunate that sometimes people (usually parents) try to keep it from being that way.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Have you or your CC sat down with this parent and discussed the options and the causes for the problem? I would assume that the overbearing parent and his presumed uninvited older son are probably not aware of the seriousness of the problems they are causing and their long reaching effects. They probably see what they are doing as being ok. However, 4 boys and 1 DL already gone because of one family. It should be clear to them what the Pack's goals are. Not letting one spoil it for many.

 

And, as others have stated, don't let this initial welcome to the "Coolest Job In The Pack" (CM) scar you. It is much better.

 

Good luck,

Jerry

[madkins007]

Our job as Scout leaders is to provide a quality Scout program to any and all boys we can.

 

Sometimes, there is a boy or family that makes this job nearly impossible. In these cases, it is our DUTY to the unit to remove the family if other methods of intervention and correction do not work. I had to do this once, and the guidelines I came up with were:

 

1.) Every key unit leader (ESPECIALLY COR, CC, and CM) on the same page and in support of the decision.

2.) A 'heads-up' to the DE to let them know the situation, get their input, and to head off any complaints in that direction.

3.) Knowing what our situation is. We CANNOT kick a boy out of Scouting, just our unit. We had already processes a refund check for unused dues, but not for registration. In our case, just to make the cleanest possible break, we also refunded his registration fees from the treasury.

4.) We found a 'designated speaker' who we all thought could talk to the family the most effectively.

5.) A polite but firm, business-like registered letter sent with the check. It said something to the effect of "Because situations over the past year between your family and the pack have not changed, the pack committee has decided to not accept your application to this pack this year. You can contact [designated speaker] to discuss the matter if you wish. This is a private matter and will not affect his ability to join another unit or advance in Scouting. {Designated speaker] can help process a Unit Transfer Request if you are interested. Enclosed please find a refund check for the unused portion of the dues and registration to date. Yours, [signed by COR, CC, and CM].

6.) Because of the nature of our family, we also gave our other leaders a heads-up, and let them know that if the family tried to contact them in an unwelcome way, they should try to refer them to one of us. Let us be the 'bad guys' (its why we get the 'big bucks', right?)

 

In our case, the family cashed the check and literally vanished. We were afraid because they were somewhat close with another family that gave us some trouble, but also were closely related to the CM.

 

It is not fun, so we aimed for making it as quick, clear, and bloodless as possible- hence the refund of registration fees even when against the pack's written policy and the registered letter.

[Greying Beaver]

Tami the Mom - Be very specific when you tell this family why your pack does not want the boy in either Webelos den. That the family has a history of problems with another pack as well as yours, and both the boy's and father's behavior are an on-going problem with the both dens are known. Their behavior is threatening your whole pack's program. Let them know that. It is a shame that you are left with few options because scouting is for all boys. You and the other adults in the pack, stand by yours guns. This could get uglier. I've seen it happen. So, . . . uh, . . . be prepared.

 

Good luck.

[lyonpridej]

Hi. I am new to this site,was looking for info on something else & came across this. I joined so I could add my 2 cents & give another perspective, hope that's ok?

With the problem going on with this boy & his family, I'm just wondering if anyone has sat down and talked to the boy one on one?

I'm a 2nd year Webelos leader, have had this group of boys since they were Bears. Nearly every one of them have some type of behavioral or learning problem to one degree or another.

One boy in particular (I'll call him David,not his real name)has been a real trial at times.Severely ADHD with anger management problems,always in trouble at school for his behavior& can have a bad attitude. He could also be bright, funny & friendly.

I noticed David the year before he joined us as a Bear. I volunteer at the school & saw him there. I began to notice everyone was always angry at him because of his behavior, hardly anyone talked nice to him, even the teachers. I once watched a teacher stand in the hallway and yell at & belittle him in front of his whole class.

I knew he was a big behavior problem, & cringed when he joined our group. Sure enough he began to stir things up & the other boys were always complaining about him.I had little control over him. His dad avoided us like the plague, was angry & defensive when I tried to talk to him. Other parents complained about him alot.

I began to watch the other boys, instead of just David, & discovered they were very good at pushing his buttons because they knew he'd react. They were good at doing it when adults weren't watching, so he was the one always getting in trouble & he had a bad attitude.

I had a long talk with David. I calmly explained that his behavior & actions made it difficult for us to have fun because he kept stirring things up & I spent my time trying to make him behave. I told him I hated for him to always be in trouble because I really liked him alot & knew that he was smart & funny (he thought I was making fun of him at first). I also told him I knew he had trouble controlling his behavior sometimes & I knew the other boys pushed his buttons. We made a deal that I would gently remind him when his behavior was getting out of control, I would remove him from the group to re-gather himself if needed,& I would be fair in dealing with him & the other boys. In turn he agreed to try his hardest to behave & not act out.

I followed through. I called the other boys out when they pushed his buttons & made it clear this was NOT acceptable(had to talk to their parents a couple of times, who didn't believe me until I could give them facts their boys admitted to). I tried to give him things to do to help me in meetings, sat him next to me when needed, and did my best to become his friend. I quit getting after him so much & made a point to compliment him and point out his positives. His behavior improved 200%, he calmed down & so did the other boys & their parents.

As for the dad, I made a point to tell him when David did something good, I figurd he heard enough of the bad. The first time I did it during Day Camp, I told him I needed to talk to him about David (& watched him cringe-now what?), then proceeded to tell him how well David had done at fishing, how exciting it was when he hit the bull's eye with the arrow & how glad I was he came to Day Camp. Well, you would have thought I'd slapped that poor dad, so great was his shock! He was used to hearing complaints about his son. When he realized I meant what I said, he stood up tall.got a big grin on his face, then turned & hugged his son! Gradually dad quit being so angry & defensive. He knows he can trust me to be fair,& believes me when I tell him when David really does start something or cause a problem.He isn't so defensive anymore.

After 2 1/2 years as a leader to this boy, I can honestly say it has been exhausting at times(sometimes when he has a bad day I have to separate him from the others, sometimes I have to call his dad). But it has been very rewarding too, because I have discovered a very bright, funny, personable young man who absolutely CRAVES & THRIVES on positive attention (especially one-on-one) & who I can genuinely say I like alot. My biggest hope is that someday he can look back & say that I was a positive influence in his life & helped make it better.

Sorry so long, just hoped it might put another light on things or give you some ideas. Good Luck!

[eagle97_78]

You might want to sit down with your Unit Commissioner and talk with them about your situation first and option that you have is the Lone Scout program. It is a great program and The boy would work with his father on his advancement.

[Lynda J]

We had to remove a boy from our troop a year ago.

Cussing, hitting, making threats. It got so bad that parents were telling us that if "D" went on an activity their son would not be there.

We put in writting what the problems were and informed him and his mother that he would be on a probation period and if any of the problems happend again he could not return to the troop. It wasn't a week before he told another leader to "Get F***ED" He was told to leave immediately.

 

Had a old time scouter ask me when this was going on. "How much better program could you offer the other boys if you were not dealing with the issues caused by this one boy?" I had to admit a lot better program.

It was strange after he left 99% of the tension in the troop was gone.

 

You have to look at the big picture and what is best for the entire group. Not just one boy.