Achievements & Electives Earned Last Year

[kenk]

Can anyone point me to an "official" statement that says a boy must do the achievement/elective activities during the respective year?

 

For example, David is a currently in a Bear den and in 3rd grade. One of the Bear requirements is to attend an outdoor event with his family. Last year when David was in second grade he attended a balloon race. Can he use this activity to fullfill the Bear achievement, even though it happened the year before he was a Bear? If not, where does it say that Bear achievements/electives must be completed while the boy is a Bear scout?

 

I looked in the Bear Handbook and the Cub Scout Leader Book and cannot find such a requirement explicitly stated.

 

Another way to say it is: Is there an implicit "While a Bear Scout, ...." before each of the Bear achievements and electives? If so, where is that stated?

[cubbingcarol]

Although I can not say with 100% authority, my bet would be that No, that would not qualify. Common sense being my guide.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the outdoor activity could be almost anything, as long as he is with his family. Have they gone to a school game? Picnic? Parade? Beach outing? You get my point. Why try to 'stretch' the rules when there are many oppertunities to be with his family, even if they are not as exciting as balloon races?

 

Just my humble $0.02.

Carol

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Here are a couple of sites that, while not affiliated with the BSA, state the grade-to-rank relationship in Scouting. It's not "official" though.

 

I would agree with Carol. Why stretch the rules when other opportunities exist?

 

What is currently the accepted practice in your unit? For example, in mine, our cut off is May Crossover. Anything after that goes toward the new rank, all before that can not be applied to the new rank.

 

http://www.boyscouttrail.com/cub-scouts/bear-scouts.asp

http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/intro.html

[madkins007]

No. it does not count.

 

The year before, the boy was either a Wolf or not a Cub Scout.

 

If not a Cub Scout, nothing he did counts.

 

If a Wolf, it would have counted for soemthing towards Wolf or an Arrow but may not be carried over to Bear.

 

Points of order:

1. The Cub program is age/grade specific. Cubs do not 'go back' to work on items from previous years. [Leader Book, p.20-6 "After the boy earns Bobcat, he then begins working on the rank for his age or grade."]

2. If we allowed items done before joining, then ANYONE could count ANYTHING and get all badges and arrows instantly. That is not what the program is designed for. [This seems implicitly implied in the above quote.]

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

I don't have any books with me, but I believe it is stated in the Cub Leader Book that a boy can not work on 2 levels at the same time.

 

If he is a Wolf he works on Wolf requirements and that is it. He is not allowed to work on (or count at some future time) Bear, Webelos, or Boy Scout requirements.

 

The ONLY time he can work on 2 levels is while he is working on his Bobcat.

 

 

[kenk]

Thanks for your replies. Your comments match my opinion exactly.

 

What is happening is that I have a Bear den Asst. Den Leader who is entering his son's advancement completion dates on our Pack's on-line system (ScoutTrack.com). I noticed that he entered dates from last year for a number of achievements.

 

He tends to be - how do I say it nicely - easily offended, and not the easiest guy in the world to talk about things with. This person has been easily irritated in the past, and now that he is an Asst Scoutmaster of a local troop as well it has gotten even worse. (think jerk)

 

In addition, the Asst Den Leader is best buddies with the Den Leader, who is VERRRRY casual about Scouting requirements and not doing a good job planning/running meetings. Our Committee Chair and Cubmaster's sons are in his den and they are trying to figure out how to create new Bear den without either the Den Leader or the Asst Den Leader. On top of that, the Asst Den Leader is the Cubmaster's brother-in-law. Yes, "As The Stomach Turns".

 

Before I bring this up at the next committee meeting, I need proof in writting from some official documentation that using "last year's activities to complete this year's achievements/electives" is not allowed.

 

I need it in writting.

 

Where is Bob White when I need him??? Does anybody know how to use the Bob White signal? (I'm thinking of the Batman symbol projected up on the clouds over Gotham City)

[cubbingcarol]

Hey Kenk, can you not PM Bobwhite? Yes I am sure he could point you in the right direction.

[johndaigler]

I'm not Bob White, but I did play him on TV. . .

 

In the Cub Scout Leader Book (2005 Printing), in section 18, page 18-3 is a section entitled "How fast should a boy advance?". It continues over onto 18-4 where it states, "He may not begin working on the requirments for the next rank until he reaches the next grade or age requirement."

 

We used to have a Bob White sky signal, but it was annoying and people kept taking shots at it . . .

 

 

OK, it was a "cheep" shot, but the tiniest bit clever! And I'm hereby apologizing, and admitting to also missing Bob White when in need of answers.

 

jd

 

[FScouter]

You too could be a fountain of knowledge -- get the book, available in Scout Shops nationwide.

[kenk]

Thanks Bob ... err, I mean John.

 

I have the prior version of the Cub Scout Leader Book - don't want to invest in the new one considering I have just 4 or 5 months to go before my boys graduate.

 

I'll see if I can find the same phrase in the older version.

 

What was the title of section 18?

 

Ken K.

[johndaigler]

"ADVANCEMENT"

 

jd

[kenk]

Got It!!!

 

It is at the exact same spot in the 2001 version of the Cub Scout Leader Book... at the top of page 18-4.

 

Thanks so very much.

[madkins007]

Just another thought, after your revelations...

 

We need to pick our battles sometimes, and the battle over Cub rank details may not be worth fighting- it sounds like you have other, bigger issues. If a boy or two gets a rank or two he did not really earn at this stage of his career, it will not be the end of Earth or the BSA... but bad den leaders ARE a big issue.

 

I think I'd be looking for a new ADL for the Bears and have the CM/CC 'suggest' that the ADL focus more on his troop duties- you know, to avoid burning him out (because you are just EVER so concerned about him!) "You've served us well... time to move on... better match of your skills and talents... Another father is interested in helping and this is the perfect time... here's your hat, what's your hurry?"

 

If you think you can 'ease' him out without a big fuss, maybe the DL can be 'fixed' by getting a better ADL for him.

[Herms]

As a Den Leader and past (probably future) Cubmaster I didn't feel it was my job to question the parent (Akela) if the boy had truely completed the requirement.

 

Like I tell the boys in my troop during SM conferences, the badge is just a piece of cloth which anyone can buy at the store. It's true meaning is, it's a symbol of the new knowledge they have attained or a new skill learned that makes the badge special.

 

If the parents don't get that concept at the Cub level, hopefully they will at the Boy Scout level were the boy has to demonstrate the knowledge or skill. This is hard for a lot of Webelo crossovers who are use to going to a den meeting and getting a badge.

[Cubmaster Mike]

Hold on Herms-

 

We had a den leader who was very lax about award rquirements. Believed that if the boys showed up 50% of the time and were well behaved, give it to them.

 

Another den saw the boys getting attendance awards and conservation awards, etc., and commented:

 

"I was there and they weren't. How come I didn't earn it?"

 

When I took over as CM we replaced the den leader after graduation. Keep it in perspective but remember, "Do Your Best" means just that.

 

CMM