Boys joining in 5th grade

[Eagle309]

Our Cub pack has 2 new 5th grade boys who have just joined. They have been placed with the second year Webelos. The Webelos II are planning on completing their AOL and crossing over in Feb. along with their den leader. These boys would have quite a lot of outside work if they were to undertake this task.

 

If they choose not to/are unable to complete the AOL by the time the rest of the den is ready (or if some other boy is unable to due to illness or something of the sort) what do we do with them? Just tell them that there is no den for them and that they can join the Boy Scout in June? Tell the parent(s) that they must step up and lead the den of 1 or 2 till June? What is the best way to deal with this?

[SemperParatus]

Talk with the boys and their parents about their options, rather than 'just tell them' what to do.

[PNScouter]

I believe you may join boy scouts at age 11 without earning AOL. They would not necessarily need to wait until June depending on their birthday. If they are 11 cross them over with their den.

[ScoutNut]

One of the options to discuss with the parents (& the 4th grade leader) is, if the boys can not go to Boy Scouts with the rest of their den, to have them stay & attend the 4th grade meetings until they A) Finish their AOL B) Reach 11 years old or the end of 5th grade.

 

I would not recommend just letting them drop out until they are eligible to join a BS Troop. They most likely never will.

[cubmaster3947]

We seem to have this come up every year. I make it a point to explain the dilemna to the parents up-front so that they aren't surprised about it later. We also offer the alternative of starting out with a Web I den if there's going to be more than a few months after crossover until the boys 11th birthday.

 

This is a tough one with no simple solution...at least that I've been able to find.

 

mark

[Cubmaster Mike]

We had the same issue last year. We put the 5th grade boy in the Webelos 1 den. Explained to the parent that he won't make it to AOL (unless he is REALLY motivated) but he will receive a full year program and earn his Webelos badge before he moves on to Boy Scouts.

 

CMM

[NWScouter]

It is doable. They only need to be in the Webelos Den for six months. If you schedule them with both first and second year Webelos den and they and their parents want them to earn the AOL they can do it by the end of fifth grade.

[redfox420]

I agree with NWScouter, if the boy starts in September, unless i'm reading the guidelines wrong (which is possible) he has until he completes the 5th grade, meaning he does'nt even have to stop when the 2nd years graduate. Indeed, it will require him almost being in 2 dens at once, but if the boy and the parents are motivated, the Arrow of Light is possible in this case. If not, he gets a years worth of learning and fun in Cub Scouts and he's more ready for the transition than he would be.

[Trevorum]

This last Feb, we had a 5th grader who had not earned the AoL with his buds, but didn't want to stay in the Pack, alone, until June. Understandable.

 

We allowed him to participate in the troop (with a parent) as a "prospective recruit" for several months. He could not work on advancements or vote in troop elections of course because he was not yet registered with us, but he was able to stay with his friends. As soon as he graduated 5th grade, he filed his registration form and is now a Tenderfoot, working on 2nd Class. An eager Scout - I think he'll go all the way and I'm glad were were able to be flexible.

[Cubmaster-Fred]

If he stays with the Webelos Den for the full year he has a chance to earn the AOL. If not he cannot earn it if he just joined scouts in September.

 

The boys must earn the Webelos badge before they can earn the AOL, which means 9 months minimum.

 

Fred

[Cubmaster Jerry]

While the easy answer is to put them in a W1 den, I am not sure that is the best thing. Keep in mind that a boy can't earn his AOL before his Webelos Badge. It doesn't mean that he can't work on it.

 

I would place them in the W2 den. Explain to each boy and their parents the situation. You may find that the boys have enough intitative and are excited enough to work on the Badge requirements at home and, thus graduate with the rest of the Den with both the badge and AOL. If the boy needs more time, they have until May. As CM, I would then take those two boys and lead them for the months of Mar - May, working to finish up any requirements for the Badge or AOL.

 

However, if these boys have neither the badge or AOL in Feb and still wish to graduate with the rest of the Den rather than stick it out until May, that is fine.

 

Jerry

[molscouter]

Cubmaster Fred,

 

The AOL requirement is be active in your Webelos den for six months after completing 4th grade or after turning 10, not 6 months after earning the Webelos badge. If the boy is in 5th grade, the 3 months requirement for the Webelos rank is a part of the 6 months required for AOL. Both ranks can be worked on simultaneously. Are you going to tell him he can't earn Readyman (AOL requirement) before he has earned Fitness (Webelos requirement) or go on a day hike or overnight campout (other AOL requirement) before he earns his Webelos badge? The boy has a steep enough hill to climb without adding 3 more more nonrequired months. September signup means potential March award, if he works hard.

[Cubmaster-Fred]

The boys can work on any activity badge they want whenever they want. The only difference in Webelos is that the WDL is the one who has to sign off on the requirements. And there is nothing saying that a Webelos I cannot go on an overnighter or a day hike. This is not what I said.

 

If you read the books you will see that in order to earn the Webelos badge he must be active in the den for 3 months.

 

In order to earn the AOL he must be active in his den for 6 months after completing the 4th grade or turning 10, and earn the Webelos badge.

 

This equals 9 months, because the time cannot be utilized for multiple awardings. The clock on AOL starts after he has earned the Webelos badge.

 

It is unfortunate but some boys will not earn all that is available. I have not added 3 non required months, I have simply read the requirements and put them into play.

 

Fred

[molscouter]

Fred,

 

I have read the requirements. I was a a WDL for 2 years. As you quoted, they say " In order to earn the AOL he must be active in his den for 6 months after completing the 4th grade or turning 10, and earn the Webelos badge." It does not say be active in your den for six months after earning the Webelos badge and after completing the 4th grade or turning 10.

 

As further evidence, I offer the following links:

 

http://www.arkie.net/~pow-wow/planning.pdf

 

http://insanescouter.com/t276/webelos/planning.pdf

 

While the guide is a bit oudated due to the new requirements, it seems to be an official publication (13-720 seems like some kind of publication number to me). One also refers to a pow-wow, which tells me they got it from an official source. I refer you specifically to Plan "D", which refers to boys joining in 5th grade.