Leave No Trace Award - earn more than once?

[cdroberts94]

We have den leaders who have submitted that their scouts earned the leave no trace award this summer (I think camp told them they'd earned it.) The only thing is they earned it at camp last year. I'm the new awards chair and am just learning. It doesn't seem to me that this should be awarded twice, especially since you can only wear one patch, but I can't find any place that specifically says you can only earn it once.

 

Carole

[Greg Nelson]

Except for the rank badges, you can earn awards 50 times if you want. The question is, are you as a pack going to pay for them more than once?

 

At $4.55 for the Leave No Trace patch, I'd say the answer should be "no". You should call the boys up, acknowledge them for completing the requirements a second time, and let them sit down.

 

If your camp is anything like ours, I'd be skeptical that all the boys really completed the requirements. Individual quizzing by the den leader is in order. But that's another issue.

 

 

[cdroberts94]

Thanks for the reply. I would have to buy 15 awards if we re-award them, so that is a good point about the cost of them. I also am having issues with whether they were really earned, particularly for the ones that got them last year. I know some, for instance, have not earned the Webelos badge that is needed.

 

It's my understanding that the Cub Scout World Conservation Award can only be earned once. Also, we have been told that the scouts can only earn two belt loops (one as a cub and one as a Webelo). That has also been an issue as kids were expecting to get them again from camp.

[Greg Nelson]

This sounds like an excellent time for your pack to form a written policy about awards earned multiple times.

 

Frankly, I don't think many boys have much interest in wearing 2 or 3 Archery belt loops. Our pack gives the first one for free. After that, the parent may purchase the award if desired. We have never had a parent buy a second identical award.

 

Once in a while, the boy will give us his old award momentarily and have it handed back to him in the pack ceremony. Most are happy with just standing in front and being acknowledged.

 

You need the written policy to have something to point to when "Johnny's" parent wants to know where her son's awards are.

 

 

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Unfortunately, written policies are necessary sometimes, as Greg notes. And as far as whether they legitimately completed the requirements for ANY award/badge, I am with Greg on that as well. Except don't present it as a "quiz" or "test". Present it from the point of view of them telling you about their experience in working the requirements. Unfortunately, that is necessary also. But it is also a good opportunty for the boy to practice communication skills such as recalling information and speaking in front of others.

[Greg Nelson]

I agree with Cubmaster Jerry. One thing to avoid is to come in cold and ask the boys to explain the award while it is being given to them. If they show a complete ingorance of the topic, what will you do then? Deny them the award in front of a crowd? Give them the award, even though it's clear to the audience that the boy didn't earn it? You lose either way.

 

A nice subtle way to accomplish the task is to have the den leader "practice" with the boys, having them talk about the award in a den meeting. If the boy shows strong evidence of not having met the requirements, you can then either work with them to fulfill the requirements, or ask them to "defer" receiving the award until they are "prepared" for the ceremony.

 

Casting it in these terms is a nicer way of handling things than just flat out accusing the boy or his parents of BSing you on the award.

 

I know at my district's summer camp, the list of items completed by the Cubs, according to the staff, was a mile long. What they actually did do, to my satisfaction as a den leader, was a much shorter list. I simply tossed the long list and gave my own short list to the parents.

 

Your den leaders may not know just what the boys did, or might not be aware of what the Leave No Trace requirements really are. A polite request to "verify" the completion of requirements will go down a lot better than simply refusing to honor the award.

[cdroberts94]

Thanks for all these thoughts. This is not a matter of the kids claiming they earned them - it's the den leaders just submitting that everyone who went to camp earned it. I think it is sort of a passed down thing - last year someone said they all got it, so this year it was just assumed. The committee chair's husband looked at the form that was passed out at one camp and it had astrisks by the Leave No Trace which stood for " Achievements marked with *** may need additional work to complete.". The other camp gave no written information at all (that's the one my son attended.) No parent attended more than one day so it would take some time to get to the bottom of if they possibly did everything but their badge/achievement at camp. I have got to get the awards tomorrow for presentation on Thursday and do not want to use pack money for 15 awards that many of the kids really didn't earn. At least if someone had said they couldn't earn it again, that would solve the short term problem and then the other issue could be discussed at the next pack committee meeting. The ironic thing is that I don't see any record of purchase of the patches last year so I'm wondering if it was entered in the data base but they were not presented.

 

Carole

[ljnrsu]

Your den leaders may not know just what the boys did, or might not be aware of what the Leave No Trace requirements really are. A polite request to "verify" the completion of requirements will go down a lot better than simply refusing to honor the award.

I would also ask the DL's to verify that the requirements were completed prior to them being awarded. Attendence alone at camp does not fulfill req #2 and 6

Cub Scout requirements can be found here:

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-032/

(This message has been edited by ljnrsu)

[hendrickms24]

Let me play the Devil advocate here. Is it really the Award chairmans job to make sure the Cub Scout is really earning their awards and Rank? The Leadership handbook says the following.

 

PACK ADVANCEMENT CHAIR

Have a working knowledge of the Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout advancement

plans.

Help plan and conduct induction and advancement recognition ceremonies.

Arrange for Tiger Cub graduation ceremonies with the Cubmaster and Tiger Cub den leader.

Train parents, guardians, and pack committee members in ways to stimulate Tiger Cub,

Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout advancement.

Arrange for Webelos graduation ceremonies with the Cubmaster, Webelos den leader, and

Scoutmaster.

Promote the use of Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout den advancement charts to

record advancement in the den and as an incentive for advancement.

Promote the use of den doodles as a stimulus for advancement.

Collect den advancement reports at pack leaders' meetings for use when ordering badges

and insignia from the local council service center.

Promote Boys' Life magazine as an aid to advancement.

Help build or obtain advancement equipment for use in making advancement ceremonies more

effective.

Promote the wearing and proper use of uniform and insignia.

 

 

I had some problems with parents in my den saying that their son had completed this award or this achievement and I know they did not. I asked my Den Mother (my Mom) how I should handle this issue. She said you cant do anything about it and all the parent is doing is hurting the child because the awards will mean nothing to them. She also said the children that get the award just handed to them will quit in time because Scouting is bored. You can not question these children and their parents if they really earned the award because its insulting. Remember the important thing is not how many awards the scouts earn but the good character and self teem that they are building.

 

Mark Maranto(This message has been edited by hendrickms24)

[cdroberts94]

Mark,

 

Thank you for posting the advancement chair information. No one gave me that. I thought my whole job was going to be keeping track on the computer and picking up awards, yet I was handed all the registration files, charting stuff, stuff for the Pinewood Derby, etc. I haven't even had a chance to attend a pack committee meeting, yet I have to go buy all the awards today for presentation tomorrow. I don't even know if I have a budget. The den leaders and Pack Committee Chair are all working parents, and two of the dens were way past the deadline for submitting their awards (One was e-mailed to me at 2 am yesterday morning.) I'll be happy if I just get all the awards all put on cards and signed and not miss anyone.

 

Carole

[bbng]

Carole,

 

Please clarify. You are getting awards but don't know if you had a budget? This is a bad situation, and you need to call the treasurer immediately to get a check to cover the costs. You should never front the money. Now, I say that, but I've done it, and nothing good came of it other than the boys received their awards.

 

Also, as for deadlines, I've been there too. If the den leaders do not let you know ON TIME, do not buy the awards. It hurts, it is SO tempting to want to this, but do not do it. Tell them that if they stop by for an advancement form, you'll have it taped to your door if you're not home.

 

Anything outside of what you agreed to needs to be given back to whoever gave it to you. If you volunteered for a specific thing to do, then that is what you do unless YOU choose otherwise. It's really quite simple to end up being taken advantage of, particularly when we know how much those boys look forward to awards.

 

Good luck, and please don't let anyone take advantage of you. You could come to resent Cub Scouting, and that would be a sad thing indeed.

[anarchist]

cdrobert94,

bbng gives good advise...after you get it ironed out you might want to see if your committee wants to establish an "awards store..."

 

My old pack let me do this many moons ago...As a new tiger dad, I got so tired of hearing at the Pack meetings..."jonnie earned his____,...but the awards didn't come in yet"

 

or "the scout shop was out of...",

 

or behind the scenes... "the webelo leader never gets his order in on time and I get the heat for it"

That I volunteered to get the awards... we did try the "dead line thing" but it still boiled down to adults screwing things up for the kids...It is not the wolf's fault that his leader didn't send in the paperwork...so what we worked out was that over the course of a few months we purchased a few extras here and there and at the end of that scout year we took some of the surplus (we had one) and I bought a few of this and a few of that....until I had a good supply of most of the regular awards...It is all contained in a neat PLano fishing tackle box that is perfect for this use. At any time I now have at least half of all the rank awards we might need in a year...if there is a 9 boy wolf den I always have 4 or five wolf badges and pins.

In addition to Rank awards I have a few of every Webelo activities pin and many bags of belt loops, service stars, I did my best ribbons, a few 1st, second, third, ribbons, wittling chip patches etc. I even have a batch of uniform shirt buttons and small safety pins...

How do you organize this? Film canisters! we use markes and for activity pins and rank I made small photo copies of the icons and glued them to the canisters...easy to organize and if I am not available I can send the "box"

 

We still ask that the Den Leaders do their jobs and email me what they need at least a week before the Pack Meeting...but now we have a cushion a small insurance policy against disappointment...and it almost always works...

I haven't had a boy in cubs for five + years now and I am still "awards guy" as well as assistant cubmaster and a troop committee member)...but not advancement chair... it does seem to help the pack though.

 

good luck and thanks for what you are doing

anarchist

[cdroberts94]

I am really appreciating all of your replies. After reviewing all the posts here, talking with my husband who is a den leader, and receiving an e-mail from our committee chair who I think only got bits and pieces of the issue from her husband who took the message for her to call me, I purchased all 15 awards and will give them to the den leaders tomorrow to give at their discretion. One has already e-mailed me that she had not reviewed the requirements and is talking about setting up a pack service project so so far it's a positive outcome.

 

bbng, The former awards chair "graduated" last May and had done it for years. Her husband was the cubmaster so they took on a lot themselves, and had to divest a lot of equipment and jobs. Shortly after all this was done he had a heart attack, and after recovering from that the wife went back to work full time. So I went into this with minimal training and had 100 awards submitted in the last week. I don't even mind learning this stuff and doing it since we'll be with scouts another three years, but I just need clarification which I will need to get at the next committee meeting.

 

anarchist,

 

Actually we do have our own store, and I was able to draw from it quite a bit, but one of our boys is graduating in October and is a very motivated scout aside from large numbers of certain awards from camp, I also had quite a few obscure ones to pick up. We have plenty of the rank badges on hand, but our council will not give out the cards until we've turned in our report. I have a box full of neckerchiefs, patches, and assorted other equipment as well.

 

I'm intrigued by your tackle box. I looked at them the last time I was at Walmart and actually bought a small flat case type one for the advancement stuff and cards. The pins, beltloops are all in a 45 drawer box, but it's not exactly portable. Does the tackle box hold you everything you have or is it just like a first aid kit?

 

Carole

[bbng]

Carole, good for you for getting clarification. That will be helpful to you, and you should be up front about how this past month went and ask that everyone now begin to work within time frames. I assume you are not working out of the home, but that doesn't mean that you are ready to head out and take care of purchases at any time. There are times the Scout shop is out of items, so timing is important for that reason as well.

 

Here are some things to find out: (1) Does your council accept a pack check, and if so, can you get one from the treasurer before going to the shop? Be sure to know what ID you'll need. (2) Does your council set up unit accounts? If so, you might want to learn how they work and then ask the treasurer and CC to set one up. (3) If you're not sure of a budget, be sure to learn the policies the unit has in place (limit on awards such as LNT is a good place to start).

 

A belated welcome to Cub Scouting and these forums! It can be a lot of fun or it can be hard, and the things you describe sound like a set up for a harder time. However, it also seems you're in a transition time, so I caution you to find out what's what now and be willing to set limits on what you can do. Also, let the CC know what you were given; chances are good that he/she had no idea that this role had grown to such a big one. That's a hazard in Cub Scouting

[cdroberts94]

bbng,

 

To her credit, the den leader who was so late did offer to go pick up her awards, and I would have had her do that if I had already gone down there. The lateness was more of a problem because it did not leave me time to sort out the whole Leave No Trace question.

 

Along with that den leader we have another dad who goes down that way frequently, and both have offered to pick up things as needed. Since it took me 45 minutes to get down there yesterday, I will probably take them up on that on lighter months. With 100 awards this time around, and since I needed stuff for myself, I definitely wanted to go myself. I was also able to talk to the people in registration about a problem with my boy scout, who was graduated on without his Arrow of Light being recorded. Ans since my daughter was in preschool I was able to get all that done in peace (yeah!)

 

I found out yesterday that none of the kids actually got the LNT patch last year. The store was out of them. So the den leaders can have a pow wow before the meeting tonight to decide what they want to do.

 

The reason I was concerned about the budget is that my husband had made a comment about most of our money going to awards, but when I reminded him about that the other night he said not to worry - the pack has plenty of money. Even the committee chair seemed unconcerned with the cost of the badges - she said if getting lots of awards motivates them in scouting, then she saw no problem with repeating awards. But discussing it as a committee is still important for me to be part of and my husband will just have to stay home with the kids next month so I can go (he says I take better notes than him anyway!)