Are more Den meetings better?

[jethro]

Thanks to all of you for your insight on this issue.

 

I'm the Wolf den leader for 11 active second graders* (up from 8 Tigers last year). I never received much guidance in terms of meeting frequency from other leaders, so last year in Tigers we met three times a month (one pack meeting, one den meeting, one Go-See-It). This may be standard practice, but thinking back 30 years to my time in Cub Scouting, it didn't seem like enough. It must have been fine in our case, though, because all of the Tigers except one, who moved away, are now Wolves.

 

Now, with more achievements to be completed, I feel like we need more meetings to share all of these activities with the boys. As a benchmark, I look at what my oldest son did last year in Wolves, with a different leader. They met only twice a month, INCLUDING the pack meeting, and are now down to five Bears this year.

 

So I made an executive decision: this year, Wednesdays are Cub Scout nights. Pack meetings have always been on Wednesdays, so we'll fill in all or most of the other non-holiday Wednesdays with den meetings or activities. Meetings will be short (this week's was just over an hour) to appeal to a second-grader's attention span and bedtime. I'm crossing my fingers that this will work out, and that parents won't consider a weekly commitment too much.

 

[*] I may post more on this later, but I've decided not to ask the pack to add another Wolf den. Eleven boys is certainly more than the ideal den size, but if we split, one den would have only five boys, which seems small to me. I also (knock on wood) have some very committed parents, including a new ADL who seems to be working out very well. Wish us luck!

 

- jethro.

[cubbingcarol]

I do wish you good luck jethro. I think what you are doing is the right thing. It has worked with my Bears (we've been together since Tigers). I have always held 3 weekly den meetings and the pack meeting. So Monday's are Scout night for us. If there is a 5th Monday sometimes we go ahead and have a meeting sometimes not. Just depends. It keeps the boys more involved if you ask me.

 

Carol

[Torveaux]

Don't be so sure about 5 boys. Part of your problem may be that you must get through so much for 11 boys. Maybe the boys could recruit 1 more boy and have two dens of 6. While even numbers are better for some things, there are significant advantages to smaller dens. The boys get to do more rather than just observing others doing more. They also get more time as denner to develop leadership. At 11 boys you are beyond the outer guideline. You do not really have any wiggle room for expansion.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

I, too, have practiced and recommend the same-time, same-day-of-the-week method of scheduling meetings. It greatly helps parents remember when Cub Scout meetings are.

 

My one DL who has just one meeting a month (and schedules it on various days of the week/month) sends home quite a bit of "homework". While this follows the premise that scouting is family oriented, it really isn't what the boys are after. Thus, it isn't a good practice in lieu of having more meetings. Having said that, her Bear den has actually grown by two since Tigers and all have always gained rank. So I have little foothold with regards to her so I don't bring it up but I have made her aware of my desire. And she's a great committee member. That doesn't mean I like her practice though.

 

As far as having 11 boys, committed parents is what you will need. While some (including myself) will argue that if the parents are that committed, why not have one of them be a DL for a new Den. I had a same situation in my Pack this year where two of my dens grew beyond 8. One now has 10 and one 11. Just as you, they both insisted that it was fine because they had committed parents. So far, so good.

 

Keep in mind. It's often difficult to break up a large den, especially if you have been together for a couple of years.

 

Is there another Wolf Den in your Pack? If not, what is going to happen next year when you get only one or two new Bears - not enough to form a new den? Committed parents or not, more growth in your den would not be a good thing.

 

Jerry

Good luck!

[MarkS]

The Program Helps! guide shows you how many den meetings are recommended for each age group through Bear. However, boys likely can complete their rank advancement with fewer.

 

I'm a 2nd year WL and we meet about weekly. Doesn't matter if we have a pack meeting or not. That said we'll be taking Thanksgiving week off and a couple weeks in December for Christmas when the boys are out of school--that's family time.

 

We have three pack meetings (one PWD and on B&G) and 11 den meetings left until Crossover in February--but I'm not counting. ;-)

 

This tired old WL is really looking forward to a boy led program.

 

MarkS

(OvO)

(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Cubmaster Jerry]

As much as I enjoy working one on one with the boys, I too was glad to "graduate" from DL. No one will ever convince me that the DL is not the most important and hardest working position in the Pack.

 

 

[funscout]

Personally, I think 3 den meetings a month, plus one pack meeting, is the way to go. Our Tiger and Wolf leaders, however, only want to meet for one den meeting a month. Those of us who are more experienced told them that they would have trouble getting much done with only one den meeting a month, but they felt that many of their boys would drop out if asked to meet more often. It's not the boys, but the parents who prefer to meet less often.

 

With my Webelos, I have changed from having 3 one-hour den meetings a month, to having 2 ninety minute den meetings a month. We meet one Tues. a month and one Sunday afternoon in order to work around the increased homework load and sports that these 4th graders are involved in. I still have 12 boys, (I know this should be 2 dens, but no one else will lead) so this is working for us.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

funscout writes: It's not the boys, but the parents who prefer to meet less often.

 

 

Sad but true. One thing to do with new leaders is to not indicate that there is an option to meet less than 2 or 3 times a month (NOT including the Pack Meeting). If they ask, you don't want to lie but if they don't ask, you don't want to tell them the whole truth either!

 

CMJ

[Newbie Den Leader]

My den meets 3 times a month and 1 time a month with the Pack.

 

To occasionally break up the weekly routine, we will substitute a den meeting with a Den outing or Pack outing that occurs on the same week. Don't be afraid to break up the routine if it makes the den meetings and outings more enjoyable. The program needs to be FUN for the den leader and not just the Cubs. Keep it fun and keep it simple. Also, take a "week off" occasionally to refresh yourself, the Cubs, and parents. I would recommend den meetings at least 2 times per month along with the monthly Pack meeting. Less than that and you will begin losing your boys and your own interest as well.

 

A weekly schedule is important for everyone concerned and keeps eveyone interested in the Scouting program. If you're not meeting enough, then the ideals and values of Scouting will not be taught.

 

Keep It Fun and Keep It Simple.

[SR540Beaver]

My son didn't start until Webelos 1. Our den always met weekly except for the week of the Pack meeting. We had other lower rank dens that decided to meet every other week and seemed to continue to run a successful and well attended program. Now that I'm over in Boy Scouts, my suggestion is to hold weekly den meetings for at least the Bears and Webelos.....AND camp!!!

 

Boys and parents that come from a 9 month program that meets 2 times a month are in for a culture shock when the come to a full year program that meets weekly. We have 16 Webelos crossing over to our troop in the next 7 to 10 days with the possibility of 2 or 3 more in April. If I heard correctly, I thought I heard one of the Webelos say they meet once a month. The ability to keep the kids from that pack concerns me greatly. We have a great program......that is why we have 16 new boys coming in.....but if they are used to a once a month commitment, they are in for a HUGE surprise.

[clydesdale115]

SR540Beaver and others - Since you are coming from the "Troop" angle, I'd like your take on holding Webelos den meetings. As a rising Webelos leader in June, I'm thinking about our den calendar. Since we were Tigers, our den has always had 2 den meetings, 1 den outing, 1 pack meeting per month. Sprinkle in a pack outing or campout here and there, but it is always at least 4 times/month.

 

Once we crossover, can we get our Webelos badge requirements done if we continue having den meetings twice a month along with an outing/campout plus the pack meeting? We have an excellent den, committed parents, etc. But I know that as Webelos, we'll be doing most things as a den vs. them doing at home. Can a 1 hour meeting every other week get us where we need to be - Arrow of Light for all our boys in a year and a half?

clydesdale115

[SR540Beaver]

Clyde,

 

Probably so. Consider that you have a year and a half as opposed to just a year. I'm not sure what your monthly outings are. You could use the monthly outing to accomplish some of your requirments. If you go out for pizza and a movie, that would be difficult. We did a Pack outing once to the local nature park to do a service project so the boys could earn the World Conservation award. It is very helpful if you actually map out your program for the coming year. It should be loose enough to work in opportunities that pop up, but planned enough to cover all of the activity pin requirements in the course of year.

 

Camp! In our council, we have Wolf and Bear Resident camp and Webelos Resident camp for half week sessions during the summer. We have Webelos Woods where boys can meet and camp with troops and can accomplish requirements. We have what is called Fall Family Adventures which is a cub weekend campout. Our Webelos den even threw in a couple of their own campouts. In the year and a half my son was in Webelos, we camped 7 times. You will find that the same group of boys and adults come to each campout and the others stay home. That is a fairly good indicator of which boys will be crossing over at the end of Webelos. However, we did have boys who did not take advatage of the camping or plan to crossover who did earn their AOL.

 

It just all depends on your planning, organizational skills and keeping the boys on task......as much as possible. While I don't suggest it, you can actually meet all the requirements for AOL in the first year very easily. But then you are looking at a half year of very bored boys and end up losing them.

[vmpost]

In our Pack, the standard 3 den meetings/1 pack meeting per month. There can be variations...one den leader needed to have 2 den meetings per month, but meets a little longer. I have worked with 4 Webelos groups (and still am) and have been with a Troop for 10 years, now, too.

 

Clyde, what you describe will definitely work. When I say "den meetings", that is loosely defined...we do many outings, too. That keeps it fun & exciting. But we usually work on requirements while there. Go on a hike & work on Outdoorsman or Leave No Trace. Go play Tennis and work on Sportsman. Go swimming and test for Aquanat. Go to a Boy Scout meeting and learn how to retire a flag for Citizenship.

 

The key is looking at the requirements and figuring out how you can work them into fun outings. Learning can be painful or it can be fun. Camps are a wonderful opportunity, whether they are Council camps or just your den. Much can be learned or shared.

 

I agree with Beaver, don't do all the required badges too early, or they will be bored.

 

Good Luck!

[queenj]

I try to have my Webelos I den meet 2x a month, 1 pack meeting and an outing if that month's activity allows for it. My cubmaster leaves it up to the den leaders to set the schedule.

[clydesdale115]

Thank you everyone! I feel like we are right on track now for our Webelos year. I'll definitely plan out our calendar ahead of time. (Our parents love that they know months in advance what we'll be covering in our den meetings :-) We'll lay out the required badges, then let the boys decide which other ones they want to tackle. I think keeping our schedule with 2 den meetings, 1 den outing, 1 pack meeting per month will help move us right into our Webelos year. Sounds like the key is "productive den meetings" and "purposeful outings" (maybe with pizza thrown in at the end)! It's great to hear from others who have been-there-done-that.

 

We took our den to Resident Camp this past year. It was in a neighboring council, as ours doesn't offer anything like this, but we had a fantastic time. And since we'll be Webelos this year, the Weebs have a bit more liberty and get to do even more. They cover at least "parts" of several badges we couldn't easily do on our own. We've been saving our aluminum cans all year to help with costs!

clydesdale115