Grounded boys from Scouts

[scouter659]

Parents who Ground a Child from Scouting Activities

 

Having reached the approximate twelve-year level as an adult leader and Scout volunteer I have seen this many times. Whatever the kid has done at home or in school causes one or both parents to say the words which sends chills down the spine of any normal active boy. "You're Grounded"!

 

I am also a parent and, like others, have used this disciplinary tool as wisely as possible over the years. But in my experience as a Scout Leader, this is also what I have seen happen. What of the boy who has been in Scouts for a year or two and his interest may be waning? Experienced leaders know that many boys go through this. Some you lose and you feel sad for a while but have to keep pushing on. Some go through phases, re-energize and they become some of the best Scouts and Junior Leaders as they age.

 

So you've just grounded your son. No computer or TV. No music or friends. No Scouts for a week, a month or longer. Just do your homework and go to your room.

 

No matter what the deed was for him to end up in this situation, this is what happens to that 'profile' boy I just talked about.

"and no Scouts for two weeks and you're not going to the next campout"!

 

Now, if his interest IS waning he's thinking, not only is that not punishment but "I don't really care". Unfortunately, aside from all of the other grounding, which does hurt, he was grounded from going to the one place which is all about teaching good citizenship, character building and teamwork skills. He might miss the meeting where a local judge or politician may have been there to talk about our freedoms and constitutional responsibilities. He might miss the meeting where the subject and focus of first aid for that evening could have taught him a practical skill, which he may have used in real life. He was just grounded from the campout, which would have afforded him his first opportunity at real leadership. The list goes on and on.

 

Parents, please think about grounding more creatively. Try to think about what the child really enjoys because, after all, in grounding, you're attempting to punish by temporarily taking away the things he most enjoys. I understand that freedom is the key but it would be great that, if in all of that anger at the moment, you would be able to think about the cause and effect of removing him from one thing in his life which may actually serve to improve him as a human being.

 

I guess I'm bringing this up because, as a dedicated Scout Leader, I'm a little selfish. I personally just don't like it when I show up at a meeting and a certain boy isn't there who I may have taken an interest in helping. And come to find out that he has been grounded.

 

Food for thought. What do you think?

 

[jmcquillan]

As much as we might want to see all of our Scouts at every meeting and activity without exception, I think that for any responsible Scout Leader to suggest that parents leave Scouting out of their own personal equation when dealing with their sons, personal responsibility, and punishment, is over stepping the bounds. That's out of our purview, and we should not suggest, nor should we expect that parents will make those exceptions.

[k9gold-scout]

I tell other parents that I have never used scoutins as a punishment rather he would loose other things if he choose to not go on some event he commited to do. I would much rather see them backpacking or working on a service project than sitting in their room. Scouting is fun while it builds character. I would not keep my son home for school as a punishment nor would I keep another home from working.I try to think before I react - what would be best in the log run?

[eisely]

jmcquillan has a point about not interfering in family matters, but the basic thrust of the thread is correct. We have rarely used "grounding" as a punishment for our boys. Rather we impose deprivation from the computer, the nintendo (now the xbox), or the tv. Grounding ends up punishing the parents as well as the boy. The real punishment ought to be a requirement that the boy go to all scouting functions whether he wants to go or not.

[OldGreyEagle]

As a group that advocates traditional family values, I do not see how any scouter can question a parents choice of disciplinary methodology. We may not agree with it, but we cant question it.

 

I may not agree with homeschooling, and I know there are many who regularly post here, but its their right to do so and I defend that right. I may not agree with grounding from Boy Scouts, but I would defend a parents right to do so.

[k9gold-scout]

I woud never "tell" a parent how to bring up their child but many times older scouters are asked for their opinion. It is at this time you can influence a parent to consider keeping scouting in the childs life.

[sst3rd]

This sounds like a topic covered before, but it's an important one. Having taken Basic many years ago, I remember being told to encourage the parent(s) NOT to use Scouting as a "grounding" tool (and that there were plenty of other tools to use). For all the reasons mentioned, this can be good or bad. However, as a Scoutmaster, I have a problem when the Scout is grounded, and he is a leader in the Troop. I do remind the parent(s) that when the Scout is grounded and can't attend Scouting functions, he is an ineffective leader. Based on that Scout's position and the duration of the grounding, the Scout can be replaced. All of our youth leaders are told this as they are taking their leadership training.

[Rooster7]

The Scouting program should be supporting parents in their efforts to raise (i.e., character building) and discipline their children. Sometimes Scouters think it's the other way around. While I agree parents should support the program. It should not be at the expense of their parenting philosophy. It should not dictate or negate their ability to discipline their children as they see fit.

 

I would take great offense to any Scouter who, without invitation, advised me on how to discipline my child. Especially if I had reason to believe that they had hidden motives (i.e., a desire to see a Scouting function supported by my son). In fact, if there is advice to be given out, it should be from the parents to the Scouters. The parents know and understand their children better than anyone else. If they don't, there's something wrong. Regardless, it is inappropriate for Scouters to assume that their desires for the troop should take priority over a parent's need to discipline his/her son. I would also have "heartburn" if a Scouter expressed his/her displeasure to my son about how he was being disciplined. This is an issue for which I think Scouters need to bite their collective tongue and step back.

 

Furthermore, I would go so far as to say, even on a Scout outing, a parent never truly gives up his right to be a parent. While I agree the parent needs to stand back as much as possible, there comes a point in time where a parent can and should step in. For example, if a boy was ever to engage in a physical confrontation with another boy, I believe it is perfectly acceptable for a parent to restrain and counsel his son. Of course, this does not negate the troop's right to discipline the Scout. Nor would I expect it to. However, if the parent felt it was time for the son to go home, I would expect the troop's leadership to support that decision.

 

Having said all of the above, I rarely if ever feel it is necessary to "ground" my son from Scouting. Yet, if/when I do, I do not expect to be lectured by Scouters in his troop.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[eisely]

R7's points are all well taken. I too, as a parent, would take offense if someone questioned a particular discipline I was using. Scouters should not butt in to these matters, but what is the harm of giving advice if the parent asks your opinion?

[Mike F]

We include a talk, much along the lines of scouter659's line of thought, during orientation for new scout parents. Many come in thinking of scouts as mostly something fun for the boys. We try to help them understand the real value of scouting that goes way beyond the fun. If it was only fun, it makes sense to use scouts as a punishment tool. But if they see it as a legitimately positive influence, they wouldn't consider withholding scouts any more than school, church, band, or a sports team.

 

Helps to have this discussion (and hopefully for the parents to make the decision) long BEFORE Johnny gets in hot water and the tempers flare.

 

I've seen a period of grounding from other activities (TV, Nintardo, neighborhood play) turn into a very positive time of growth when Johnny really looks forward to scouts.

[KoreaScouter]

Good discussion by all. When we ground our son, it's from all activities EXCEPT school, church, and Scouts. Why? Basically, I think the aims/methods are a better use of his time than sitting in his room, regardless of the "atrocity" he committed. Moreover, I personally believe the Scout has a responsibility to his patrol/troop which he partially fulfills and internalizes by showing up. Plus, call me a caveman, but boys are not designed for sitting indoors on their cans for extended periods -- they gotta smell the air, hear birds, step in dirt, stuff trash in their pockets, and handle sticks on a regular basis or it screws up their heads. Even when my son's grounded and can't do things he wants to do, I'll detail him to things I want him to do (take out the trash, wash the van, go get a paper, take this tour permit to Mr. V's house)...sorta like a minimum custody prisoner.

 

An important follow up question would probably be "Why is he grounded"? In many cases, the behavior that resulted in the grounding would be eventually modified by continuous exposure to Scouting activities.

 

Having said that, I would never presume to lecture a parent on how they should discipline their son. I am occasionally asked, in which case I freely opine. Otherwise, I take it in stride.

[scouter659]

I just need to butt-in again and say that I very much appreciate the comments from folks who understood what I was trying to say. Thank you.

[Rooster7]

"...boys are not designed for sitting indoors on their cans for extended periods -- they gotta smell the air, hear birds, step in dirt, stuff trash in their pockets, and handle sticks on a regular basis or it screws up their heads."

 

Great quote...Mark Twain would have smiled had he heard that one.

 

I understand the points made. There is validity concerning much of what has been said. However, in most cases, participation in a Scouting activity is not going to be the deciding factor as to whether or not a boy winds up on the wrong side of the tracks (so to speak). For my son, Scouting is his number one activity and greatest source of fun. If I ground him, it will be painful not to participate, but it will also be a learning experience. Most troops should be able to function when a particular Scout or two becomes unavailable. "Be Prepared"...that sounds familiar. Assistant Patrol Leaders (or an ASLP) should be ready and able to fill the void on those rare occasions. If a parent doesn't want to use Scouting in this way, I understand. Nevertheless, for me, it isn't a matter of creativityit's about effectiveness. On the other hand, if my son's interest in Scouting were waning, then I'd probably take the other side of this argument. I wouldn't ground my son from Scouting if I thought it would make him disinterested and apathetic to the program. Obviously, the purpose of discipline is to make your child a better person in the long run.

 

[jmcquillan]

eisely,

 

You asked,

 

...Scouters should not butt in to these matters, but what is the harm of giving advice if the parent asks your opinion?

 

A very different can of worms than the original query in this thread.

 

Of course, if a parent were to ask my "opinion", I would offer it, but not as "advice". Were they to ask my "advice", I'd still only offer my "opinion". I'd remind them of the purpose of Scouting, and say that my "opinion" would be that, perhaps it might be good for them to think about that purpose, and how the words might "fit" within the general scheme of life they sought for their son(s). But I'd also offer my "opinion" that no one but themselves, Mom & Dad, can choose best for their child, within the framework of their family. My family and lifestyle is mine. Theirs is theirs. No one can choose better than me & my wife for our children, and no one can choose better than they for theirs. I would not offer "advice" here, only the words published by the BSA, known to all Scouters and understood by all, but not necessarily by all parents. Those words, from a knowledgable and respected Scouter anywhere, may be food for thought for Moms & Dads. But, IMHO, they should not be offered as advice, or as a better mouse-trap, only as information for parents to know, understand, and, perhaps, use as they see fit.

 

But as I said above, this arena is out of our purview as Scouters...unless and only unless, Mom & Dad open the door and ask us in. Even then, we should tread lightly and speak carefully, as we would hope others would do for us, concerning our own children.

 

[LauraT7]

I can only answer this one from personal experience; as a parent and as an adult leader in my son's pack and troop.

 

I don't use grounding at all - as someone above pointed out - that is as much a punishment for me as it is for my son - especially as a single parent! If he's grounded, effectively, I am too!

 

I prefer to take away priviledges appropriate to the indescretion - losing TV, Computer, Playstation or play time, or assigning additional chores.

 

Scouts, church, school events may be fun - but they are also a responsibility. You have a group depending on you, whether you are the motor or just a cog in the works. Whether you have a job or responsibility in the troop - or not - it's a team effort - and even the most insignificant player is important.

 

However, there are some parents who don't value the scouting experience the way I do - and I have to accept that. to some, we're just a babysitter or playgroup with cute uniforms!