Dues

[mbscoutmom]

Our pack has not been charging dues, either for den or pack expenses. The den leaders have to provide supplies on their own, and pack fund raisers provide money for awards, re-chartering, and other pack expenses. This year, however, our funds are very low. Some families are not participating in the fund raisers. I'm the new CC, and we're about to have our yearly budget meeting this week, so I need to decide what to suggest for the coming year.

 

First of all, isn't it a bit much to ask den leaders to give both time and money to the pack? I don't understand why the boys haven't been asked to pay den dues. If we start this, how does it work? Do they pay the dues directly to the den leader, who uses the funds to buy supplies, or does the money have to go through the pack account?

 

The other issue is using fund raisers to pay pack expenses. Some boys are getting a free ride by not participating, while others do more than their share. Is this the way it normally works? What do you do to make sure each boy (or family) is doing their share?

[jteamnmj]

I think we are going to ask the parents for $4 a month for dues this year with our Wolf den (I believe we will have no more than 10 boys). We didn't ask for dues last year but the projects we did were inexspensive. This year the crafts are a little more involved. I'm hoping that the parents don't feel that this is to much. Any money that is not used for crafts will go directly back to the boys at the end of the year through a party or some other activity.

 

Julie

[Lynda J]

Our troop charges $60.00 a year. This covers supplies, & advancement. Boys can pay half up front and then 5.00 a month after that.

I am a firm believer in dues. A leader ends up spending enough out of pocket. If you make them buy all the supplies for the den or troop you are going to lose them after a while.

 

We have one boy that there is simply no money for him. Now don't get me wrong there is money to smoke and drink with but no money for him. We have him a sponsor that gives the troop a check each year to cover his scouting expenses. Does it cover everything, no, but he never misses an activity because of money.

 

 

[EagerLeader]

I am also going to be asking for dues from my Bears this fall, but I'm only asking 50 per week. It's not much, but it'll offset the expenses of this years' projects for the Den (soap for carving practice, wood for toolboxes and bird feeders, craft supplies, etc.). Last year we had a party at our last den meeting, so I'll do that again and use any extra funds from the dues to buy treats and trinkets.

 

Our Pack does charge a separate membership fee which covers handbooks, neckerchiefs and slides, Pinewood Derby kits and all advancement. We have some boys in the Pack that get a LOT of stuff, especially belt loops and pins, but there are others who hardly attend den meetings and get nothing so for the most part it seems to even out.

 

EL

[ScoutNut]

Our Pack supports itself off of the Popcorn sale alone - No Pack dues. We set a reccomended sales goal for each boy & most either make it or come pretty close. This year we are considering making the profit cost madatory. Either thru the popcorn sale or as a check. Personally I prefer the boys to work the sale & earn their way, rather than have mom & dad pay for it.

 

Den dues are up to the individual Den Leader. I do not charge dues for my Tigers because the cost of supplies is spread out to each family running their meetings. When I was leader for my son we charged $15 per year.

 

[Cubmaster Mike]

We charge $50 per boy for pack dues. This covers their registration, advancement and events. We also set a Pack Goal last year for Popcorn sales. If the pack met the goal, the den with the highest per boy total got to dye my hair any color they wanted (now THAT was a sales incentive!!!) Den dues are up to the den- if they want to collect for outings, projects and crafts, or else the den leader charges the parents at craft time. This year we will bump up dues $10 per boy and give each a derby rocket, regatta boat and pinewood car.

 

CMM

[madkins007]

Our pack's policy (paraphrased):

 

Annual dues are $XX a year. This covers registration, insurance, Boy's Life, all awards, general pack overhead, Pinewood cars, den dues, and more.

 

We will not ask for any other pack monies through then year except for camp dues, admission fees, or other special costs for optional events or activities. You are still responsible for uniforming costs, and are free to purchase the few awards a Cub can earn that our pack does not provide. (Example: we only provide Sports and Academic pins and loops for awards earned as a den activity. If your family earns them seperately, you are free to buy them on your own.)

 

$YY [about $2/month] of your dues will be given to the den leader for running their den. They may ask for other amounts throughout the year as needed for special projects or events but this will be rare.

 

You can earn the dues through some of our pack fund-raisers. In some of our fund raisers, the Scout earns their own money that can be used for dues, camping fees, etc.

 

Dues are due before the next pack meeting (after a full month of regular meetings). You can pay it in installments as long as it is paid in full by the pack meeting, and you pay at least $15 upon registration. This is to help us be able to pay for all of the things that come up early in the Scouting year, including the awards he will earn soon!

 

Part of the dues are pro-rated. We will take $ZZ off every month after December 1st up until July 31st. The program year starts again in August when school starts up.

 

Refunds? Sorry, but except for some special situations, our pack does not offer refunds. Nor can we 'pay back' dues that were paid originally, but you now wish to cover with fundraising income.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We established this policy for many reasons...

 

- get a good cash flow in the early part of the programming year, when you need it the most.

- free den leadership from taking or tracking dues.

- annual polls of the parents show they prefer this approach to weekly or monthly dues, or to using more fundraisers tocover costs (even though this was a lower-income pack!)

- one time we kept the Pinewood Derby cars and some other things (not awards) hostage against a 'non-paid dues' family, but they had several other issues so ended up leaving anyway.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

mbs, Yes, it is a bit much to ask the Den Leaders to give both time and more than their share of money to the Pack. I have always been in favor of having the boy bring a set amount to each meeting. That money is given directly to the Den Leader to cover current or future Den expenses. The boy should be encouraged to "earn" his den dues at home. This also allows the DL to adjust the amount collected if they find that they are collecting too much or too little. This is what I am going to push my den leaders to do this year.

 

My old Pack charges a certain Annual Den Due amount and that money goes to the Pack. This amount is "charged" at the beginning of the year along with the pack dues. The Den Leader then turns in receipts throughtout the year and gets paid back out of that money. This puts the burden of tracking Den dues on the Treasurer. I really wouldn't suggest this. Other than putting the unnecessary burden on the Treasurer, it often leads to bloated Den accounts.

 

Additionally, my current Pack's Den Leaders charge each parent on an as needed basis. This usually puts the Den Leader in a spot to ask for small amounts of money (say $1.00) from each parent on a regular basis (every den meeting). This seems to work well for them but I always felt like this was "nickle-and-diming" the parent. The parent always felt like they owed money. And if the DL didn't want to ask for that small of an amount, then they are left shouldering the burden. Some of my leaders keep a tally and charge the parent at the end of the year.

 

If you set up a system that may find the den leader collecting too much, I would not recommend the Den Leaders using that extra money for year end parties, camp shirts, or the like just so the money can be spent. That is not what the money is collected for and you may find some parents may have a problem with that.

 

As far as Pack Dues, we have broken out exactly what the Pack pays for and we charge the parent that amount. We use our pack dues for recharter, boys life, books, rank badges and patches we hand out for special activities or events. This is my first full year at this Pack and am going to recommend a few changes. Because we do it this way, we put the burden of cost on any non-rank badges, such as arrow points and belt loops on the parents. Again, more nickle-and-diming. I hope to find a 5-yr average that covers most things and charge that amount as Pack Dues. But whatever you do, as madkins suggests, do not offer refunds.

 

As far as fund raisers, we use these to subsidize the program itself. For example, we pay for our Blue & Gold, PWD, and Crossover from here. If a boy does not participate, they are "charged" a buy-out fee of $10. They can also elect this option. This seems like a small amount to get out of doing a fund raiser but we also push the benefits of a successful one. Besides earning money for the Pack, each boy who participates in the fund raiser also earns money for himself. We have an accout set up for each boy whereby they earn 50% of the profit they bring in. This money can be spent on scout related items. This has worked well for a both programs I have been involved with.

 

Fundraisers are everything. If you can support your program with them alone, as ScoutNut can, you are golden. However, it seems as if you are not in that boat as your funds have finally reached a low point. It can be difficult to reach that balance between not charging enough to sustain a good program or charging too much and making a "profit". Good luck.

 

Jerry

[Tami the Mom]

As a parent, I could not imagine signing my kids up for scouts and NOT being asked for dues. Money makes the world go around, everybody knows that. However- since you've never asked for money before, you may face some initial resistance. All you have to point out is that your denleaders have been paying for everything, and it's time for that to stop.

 

We charge $35 per year, which covers registration, Boys Life, and helps with expenses. Then we end up doing about 6 fundraisers per year, including popcorn. We make fundraising and dues mandatory, because otherwise, parents just don't bother, and their kids are the ones who turn in mile-long lists of beltloops they have *earned*. If dues are behind or the Scout hasn't participated in the fundraisers, they don't get their awards or Pinewood cars. It stinks to have to do that, but some parents think Scouting is a free ride. $35 per year isn't that much. We have a boy in our pack who couldn't pay it, so we let him do other things to help earn his way. He helps with pack meetings. He goes to Beaver Weekends at camp in the spring. He's the first kid at every service project, and the one who signs up for two shifts at any fundraising event.

 

I think if you sit the parents down and tell them that your leaders cannot bear the financial burden any longer, they will understand. We keep dues in the pack fund, and the DLs tell us when they need project supplies or money for an outing, like for ice cream or hot cocoa or whatever. We used to keep it in the dens, but then we discovered that every den had a dozen pairs of scissors they used 2x a year, plus 6 bottles of glue, again, twice a year. Too much overhead. Now we have 1 or 2 "craft boxes" that we pass from leader to leader, that live with the CC or CM during the summer. We are also able to plan big craft projects to be done as full pack events. We find it works great, especially for families with 2 Cubbies.

[Torveaux]

I am an opponent of Den Dues. I think it is hard enough to get everyone to the meetings with their uniforms and books. Expecting them to bring some money to each meeting wastes valuable time and serves no real purpose.

 

If the Den Leaders need money to run their programs it should come from the Pack's funding. The Den Leaders should submit a budget request during the budget cycle and the Committee can approve the money if warranted. Then the Pack dues/fundraising can be set to deal with the real cost. (Alternately, the Pack can simply establish a fixed budget amount for each Den based on historical needs or some other formula that covers Den-specific costs.)

 

We have had complaints about people feeling nickled and dimed. If the real cost of a year of Scouting is $75 (or whatever) then ask for it up front (or with a fundraising alternative). If someone has financial problems with the initial outlay, work with them on a discreet plan.

[mbscoutmom]

Thanks for all your input. I decided to do what our Boy Scout troop does. They charge $10 per month, and they don't charge extra for registration and all the monthly campouts. Boy Scouts have to pay extra for the Summer camp, but other than that, it's just $10 per month through the school year. They also do fund raisers.

 

If my figures are correct, $10 per month will cover a Cub Scout's awards, registration, insurance, Boy's Life, food for the two family camp outs, and a little bit to give the den leaders for supplies. We'll still need a couple of fund raisers to pay for other pack needs, such as leader training and awards, and program costs. The treasurer and I had a horrible time keeping track of all the money coming and going last year. Bank deposits would consist of money for different things, and nobody kept track of how much was for what. I hope this will be easier to track, since almost all the money we'll collect from parents will be dues.

 

I still haven't figured out how to manage the money for den supplies. More ideas would be welcome!

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Wow, to go from nothing to $10 a month is quite a jump. Unless you have some great (and expensive) outings or Pack meeting guests or boys who earn a ton of belt loops or arrow points, you will probably find yourself in the "black" at the end of the year. That isn't necessarily a good thing. Parents, even if they did fully understand the need to charge dues, might have a hard time understanding where that $90 a year is going. And you might have a hard time explaining it.

 

May I offer this suggestion? First, don't burden your treasurer with Den dues. Let the Den leaders handle those expenses. They can collect from the boys as they see fit (i.e every meeting or as needed).

 

Second, figure out an average of what your pack wants to buy through Pack dues and charge that. I can send you my spreadsheet with amounts on this if you PM me but I did this for my Pack and for $85 a year we could cover, each year, registration, Boys Life, book, neckerchief, slide, totem/beads, rank badges, 3 belt loops, 4 Webelos pins, Webelos colors, 6 Special Activity patches, service stars, PWD car, Regatta boat, cost of B&G meal, cost of Crossover meal, and even a Class B t-shirt (just once).

 

Now, we choose to not pay for all of that through Pack dues and only charge $42. We are acutally guaranteed to collect (ideally) $52 a year because we offer a $10 fund raiser buyout. Additionally, historically, the Pack has made about $15 profit per boy each year through fund raisers. So, we chose $66 out of that $85 to pay for from dues collection. Parents pay for the rest.

 

(This message has been edited by Cubmaster Jerry)

[mbscoutmom]

If anyone wants to know where the $10 goes, it's very simple: $3 for awards, $3 for registration, insurance, and Boy's Life, $2 for campout food, and $2 for den supplies. These are all costs that go directly to the boy, so I don't see why they wouldn't understand the need for it.

 

I don't think we'll collect too much money, because I'm going to suggest that a lot of the money raised by popcorn sales go toward dues. That will give boys an incentive to sell it, and an opportunity to work towards paying their own dues. Families who don't participate in fund raisers will no longer be getting a free ride, because they'll pay the full amount of dues, while those who do participate will get a financial benefit from it.

[theysawyoucomin']

I remember the most insulted I ever felt as a den leader.

 

We had a $1 dues required for materials, one ignorant parent treated me like a babysitter and said,"Are you sure that's all you want for watching them all this time?"

 

Folks hopefully know that Elmers glue, construction paper, and everything else isn't free at any store that I know of. If things are free in your town please let me know.

Don't be bashful, you are building young me that are going to run the country when we are too old to take care of ourselves.

Thank you for your service to our nation and for making a difference in kids lives.

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

I rather agree with CM Jerry. After no dues at all, $90 per boy, along with a "couple" of fundraisers, is going to be an unpleasant shock.

 

We had 30 boys in our Pack last year & from your posts it sounds like you have about the same amount. For 30 boys at $90 each you end up with $2700. Add in another estimated $50 per boy for those couple of fundraisers and you are up to $4200. That's a good chunk of money. With 30 boys, we made $2900 on popcorn, which was our only income, & paid for just about everything.

 

Taking your $90 Pack dues out of fundraising is a good idea. It will cut the "sticker shock". You might also find you don't need to do so many extra fundraisers.