Additional requirements for knots

[littlek]

Does anyone have any feelings on adding pack requirements to the adult leadership knots?

 

I feel very strongly that a CC, CM, ACM, WL, and DL (any others?) should commit to BALOO/WLOT training. The program helps build better leaders by supplying skills and confidence to plan an overnighter. It builds better dens by allowing them to camp together (following approved protocol), better packs by adding more knowledgeable leaders to the mix. Im sure most would agree a better-trained leader is a better leader.

 

However, Im just curious as to appropriateness of this adding of requirements.

 

Any comments?

 

k

[fgoodwin]

WLOT already is a requirement for the WDL knot (but not for the "trained" strip).

 

I would oppose adding BALOO as a requirement for a CM, DL or Cub Scouter knot. BALOO is intended for non-leaders. Let's keep it that way.

[FScouter]

What is a "non-leader".

[Bob White]

If you are asking if it would be OK for the pack to add the requirement then the answer is a resounding NO. The knot is an award from the BSA not from the unit and so the unit has no authority to add a requirement.

[fgoodwin]

A non-leader is an adult who is not a DL, ADL, CM or ACM. The BALOO syllabus is very clear that non-leaders are the intended audience.

 

The point is, why add this to the requirements for a leader knot? They aren't the intended BALOO audience anyway.

[Cubmaster-Fred]

I agree with Bob, don't add ant requirements. First you can't change the requirements and second why would you want to.

 

If you want them to get the training then get them to commit to it. As one of the Districts trainers, I try to have treining often enough that everyone gets a chance to go.

 

Fred

[littlek]

I'll disagree that BALOO is intended for 'non-leaders' only. IMHO, and the syllabus of our council, the information abounds that it is a requirement for any person who wishes to plan & lead an overnight cub scout campout. This usually by necessity includes, but is not limited to, the CM, ACM's, & maybe DL's. I realize only one person who is present must be BALOO trained. That is usually a pack leader by definition.

 

If it is required for the WL knot, should it not also be required of at least the CM? Or do they consider that a part of the requirement of a weblos den is camping and therefore a WL must be trained? Conversely, that a pack has no requirement for camping and therefore its' leaders are exempt from the training requirement.

 

IMO if a CM is to lead by example he must have at least the same amount of training as his other leaders. This can only serve to allow him/her to be a much more effective leader. We are not just leading boys.

 

I appreciate the intricacies of allowing a pack to change a national award, but does the pack have the right to require that as a pack leader certain expectations (training) must be met to work with its boys?

 

k

[FScouter]

I would think that the persons most in need of BALOO training would be the leaders taking the pack camping. Normally that would be the Den Leaders and assistants, and the Cubmaster and assistants. If the outing leader is a committee member or a parent, that person should have the training.

 

BALOO isn't for non-leaders only. Rather, non-leaders are encouraged to take the training as well. The overview in BALOO syllabus says "The target participant is a new Cub Scout leader who has minimal camping experience but wants to plan and carry out an entry-level outdoor experience for the pack." It goes on to say adults not already part of the pack leadership team would be ideal participants.

[FScouter]

"does the pack have the right to require that as a pack leader certain expectations (training) must be met to work with its boys?"

 

The chartered organization must approve all adult leaders. If they want to specify some minimum requirements or training, that is their prerogative.

 

They do not however, nor does anyone, have authority to alter the requirements for BSA awards.

[SeattlePioneer]

As I noted, I took Baloo training this spring as Unit Commissioner for a Pack I advise. The CM, AC and CC were there too.

 

While I think you have an argument, I'm not especially interested in burdening people further.

 

So--- if you think Baloo Training should be added as a requirement, which current requirement would you remove?

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

 

 

[littlek]

Seattle Pioneer- Were you burdened with taking the course or did you willingly attend? Reading into your other posts in many topics I would think you willingly went. And that is the true leader spirit. Wanting more for the pack means sometimes we must be burdened. Being a pack leader by definition is burdensome, but we do it out of love for the program and/or the boys.

 

As far as the requirements, I feel the CM knot is fairly light on requirements. Take some training, hang around, run a decent program, and in two years here ya go!. Therefore I would add it with no deletion of other requirements.

 

The other awards are much meatier in their requirements and this could be added as an option under performance or as a requirement under training and lighten the performance load (choose 3 instead of 5).

 

Maybe my expectations are to high. We have 7 leaders (committee and pack)that took BALOO/WLOT last fall. We only have 20 boys in our pack. Our leaders, in the three short years we have been a pack, have accumulated almost 300 total hours of training. Maybe we are freaks, but we highly prize the opportunity to attend training. Maybe that is setting the bar to high for future generations.

 

k

[rkfrance]

I would really hesitate to call any volunteer a "non-leader". Bad precident. Any registered adult is a leader, regardless of their position in the unit/district/etc.

 

Our district recommends (not requires) any Committee Members, CM, and ACM to be BALOO trained. It would be great to get all leaders BALOO and WLOT trained. It would be great just to get all leaders trained in their positions. That is left to the discretion of the CO.

 

When I see "non-leaders", I think unregistered adults. Any training they might take would not be binding, because they aren't a member of the BSA (no application/no obligation).

[fgoodwin]

RE: the BALOO Target Audience:Ideally, your target participant is a parent who is not already part of the pack leadership team. This position should be similar to the person in charge of the pinewood derby, blue and gold dinner, or other special pack activity. He or she may not have already attended Cub Scout Leader Basic Training or Youth Protection Training, but should be encouraged to do so as part of this training. He or she will be responsible for the success of this important activity and should be given adequate time to prepare. That is not to say that pack leaders are not welcome, but it will be important for you to convey this message as part of your promotion and planning.This quote comes directly from the BALOO syllabus (page 10 of my 2002 version).

 

I can't speak for every Pack, but for the three I've been personally involved in, the PWD and B&G were NOT planned by DLs or CMs. Those activities were planned by other parent volunteers, and they were not always registered leaders (hence my use of the phrase "non-leaders").

 

The CM's focus should be planning and executing the monthly Pack Meeting; the DL's role should be planning and executing the weekly den meetings. The plain fact is, just as DLs and CMs are too busy and involved to handle the B&G and PWD, the same applies to planning the Pack overnighter.

 

Since planning a non-recurring activity like a pack overnighter should be handled by someone other than a DL or CM, the BALOO training should be taken by such a person, not the CM or DL (although they may take the training if they want).

 

Again -- read the syllabus; its very clear.

[rkfrance]

And those parents organizing the PWD, etc should be registered Committee members.

 

All training is invalid for unregistered adults. They can go to any training out there, but it does not count if they are not registered. Therefore, to attend any training, an adult must be registered, and I would call that person a Leader.

 

If you have a parent willing to attend BALOO training but unwilling to sign an application, what kind of commitment do you think you will get from that person?