Trouble with scout leader/volunteer

[littlek]

Hello All!

 

We have an ADL who still has not completed any training asked/required of him. He is a very active leader who brings excitement to den meetings and the boys like him.

 

The problem runs deeper though. It is an almost pathologic disregard for any sensible saftey or control of situation efforts. His comments are usually to the tone of 'Let the boys be boys'. That's fine as long as they aren't being boys in the back of a moving pick-up truck, (latest effort on his part). He is at times a loose cannon and I as a new CM have little time to spend keeping him under control. The Committe consensus is to 'fire' him. Any suggestions?

[johndaigler]

littlek,

 

Welcome!!!!

 

It's easy to be appreciated by elementary school kids when you act as if you have the same level of responsibility. He has to change! The trick of course is to make him see that being careful and appropriate doesn't have to truly damage the level of fun the boys have.

 

 

You said he's an ADL, what's the DL doing?

Would he be better suited as an Activities Chair for the whole Pack?

Advancement Chair?

Is training mandated by your CO?

It sounds like he could be beneficial in the right role with the right controls -- but the greater good and the greater safety are more important and more urgent.

 

I'm sure you'll get some great ideas in the next day or two - in the meantime, I'll keep thinking.

 

jd

 

 

[Bob White]

How about creating a position of Loss Prevention Chairman. Put him in charge of safety. Arm him with the G2SS, send him to BALOO, have him learn about the BSA accident insurance coverage and explain it to the parents, have him organize the Youth Protection training for the youth and the adults, have him help find presenters on fire safety, woods tools, first aid, home safety.

 

 

[madkins007]

I think I'd take him aside (or have another leader he respects and works well with do this) and explain the dilemma- 'We love having you around and the Scouts love you, but there are some rules and safety guidelines we HAVE to operate under. You can learn about them at training, or read the Guide to Safe Scouting and Cub Leaders Handbook to learn about them, but you've really got to get on board with us about safety. Neither of us wants the Scouts hurt, or to deal with an upset parent over something.'

 

If your pack has an internal expectation of training (as you ought), mention that as well- along with whatever you do to encourage it (like paying for it out of the treasury).

 

If that does not help, try to find another position that he can help with and have less interaction in risky situations.

 

[rkfrance]

We had a Tiger Leader with a similar attitude last year. He went to New Leader Essentials and talked thru the whole thing. Never went back for anything else. "Can't understand why we are so uptight about everything. That's not the way it was in Canada." He also had an issue with women in control. (Our CC and UC are both women).

 

Gee, unfortunately, he got a better job and won't be in a position to be a Leader for us this year.

[Cubmaster Mike]

Riding in the back of a pickup has been illegal for years here in CA.

 

I like Bobwhite's idea, but you don't need to make a position. Give him a copy of the G2SS and have him review each activity in advance to make sure that it is safe. You'll need to do so yourself and if he shrugs it off and says it is safe (when you know it isn't) then suggest things like, "OK but let's check under Chapter X. I remember seeing smething there...."

 

He should get the point.

[littlek]

Thanks for your input on this matter.

 

The COR, CC, and I agree that his days as a leader working directly with the boys are limited unless we see some clear signs of change. He will be reminded of the opportunity to take training and be on some sort of probation and/or offered a committee position, as Bob White suggested. He probably would not accept a committee position and it will be tough to get him trained. My concern is with him removing his son out of spite. It is not fair to the boy, but we must have some safety and order for the other kids.

 

Im going to show my ignorance, (dont look ;-}), what is the G2SS that you refer to Bob?

 

Thanks k

 

[Lynda J]

GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING

YOU HAVE TO GET THIS GUY EITHER TRAINED OR OUT.

Only options. You have to accept that if a child gets injured and it is through his negligence that it will be you and the Charter Org that could be sued. THey do not sue BSA. You are putting yourself, your boys and your Pack in danger each time you allow this guy to do anything unsafe with the boys.

If he refuses to get trained then you have no option but to let him go.

Would be the same if you knowingly allow boys to ride with a driver that you knew had no drivers license. Remember it is SAFETY FIRST.

As far as him removing his son out of spite. That may very well happen. But you can not endanger the other boys because of it.(This message has been edited by Lynda J)

[bbng]

G2SS is shorthand for Guide to Safe Scouting. This is a very important resource, and it may just solve some of the problems you are facing. Every activity should be planned following the G2SS as well as the Age-Appropriate Guidelines. Also, if you are unsure of what is guideline and what is policy, within the G2SS policy is in bold print. Also, the Cub Scout Leader Handbook covers many policies. As CM, I highly recommend that you have copies of these. The G2SS and age-appropriate guidelines are online:

 

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-260/index.html

 

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/index.html(This message has been edited by bbng)

[littlek]

I figured out G2SS about an hour after I posted. Thanks!

 

Lynda, that is where we are at in our discussion with him. No train = no boy contact.

I prefer no training = no leadership position. We have been able to keep him from engaging in the activities that HE deems safe. We are not sure if there have been things that have not been noticed and stopped.

 

Does BSA provide any type of liability insurance to CO? Does it cover COR, CC, CM or other pack leaders? Maybe I need to spin this thread off?

 

[Bob White]

The BSA provides liabilty protection for the CO and any registered adult, however it is important that all related BSA policies be followed in order to insure that the protection will be in-force. A leader who ignores any BSA safety regulations can jeopardize that protection.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[CubsRgr8]

And that includes getting a tour permit (signed by a committee member AND the council) each and every time this leader has any cub scout (other than his son) in his vehicle! Of course, the same rule applies to all drivers (registered leaders or volunteer parents), not just this guy.

[KoreaScouter]

In my experience, the volunteers who would benefit most from the training (read: need it most) are the least likely to go to training of their own volition. Unfortunately, more common in the Cub program and the cause of most of our youth losses, too. When I was a Cubmaster, my first priority was to get DLs and ADLs trained and operating legally. I laid it on the table at recruiting night, and we had Pack-level trainers if they couldn't make it to District or Council-level training. Gotta do it in September. Training in January is useless -- all the bad habits are now institutionalized, and your losses have already occurred (and, all those families who quit will spend the rest of their lives telling their friends how "broke" Scouting is).

 

I would "unvolunteer" a DL in a second if they didn't get with the program. When I was a Pack committee chair, it was the same thing. I was forced to relieve a Cubmaster and Treasurer in the same year; turbulent, but necessary. In that regard, I'm way more "Dr. Phil" than I am "Oprah". BTW, you need your committee and CO behind you 100%.

 

Colin Powell once said that "a good leader can't walk past a mistake". If you know this volunteer is running his own extemporaneous routine, you have to redirect his energies or send him to your neighborhood soccer team...

 

KS