Cubmaster

[seed]

I'm with a newly revived pack of two years. The Commitee Chair has been holding things together until enough leaders, etc... can be found. He's been in scouting for a long time and I do respect him, but. We've had three families quit because of him. I was not aware of the reason they left until the other day when another parent confided in me. No specific reason was given, just "him." I've done recruiting, and people have signed up and even paid, but I never see them again. Now, I'm starting to wonder what it is about him people don't like. It won't do any good to have a talk with him. I've tried in a round about way because I don't want to hurt his feelings. Who is next in line to talk to? Most, if not all of the parents would quit if I wasn't there.

[OneHour]

Your COR (Charter Org Rep) would be the person to deal with this issue. He/she has the responsibility of choosing and "unchoosing" the leadership of the Pack (I hate the word "fire" when it comes to volunteer). In our case, our Troop's CC was causing a similar problem. Our COR talked to all parties involved. She talked and conferred with our Unit Commissioner and our District Exec for advices. After she has gathered all data and facts, she asked him to step down. He stepped down with a lot of bad feelings. He decided to start his own troop.

 

If I were a good friend to him, I would find out what did he that caused such a rift and then talk to him as a friend about the issue. I would point out the fact that the pack is very fragile right now and what he is doing may hurt its survival. Another example, our former Cubmaster has a nasty habbit of yelling at the kids. This caused a lot of griefs among the parents and several families left the Pack because of his action. He is a very good CM and very involved. I happened to befriend with him for the 3 years that his son and mine were in the same den. I had a long talk with him about his demeanor and how it has hurt the Pack. I talked about his action and what other parents are seeing and disagreeing with, NOT about HIM as a person. He is slowly changing ... at least he is trying. Sometimes, people do not take hints very well. Simple straight talk may work and then again it may not. In sum, plant the "seed."

 

Good luck,

 

1Hour

 

(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[SemperParatus]

You should ask the departees for their 'specific' reasons, beyond 'just him'. Although 'just him' is a valid enough reason in their mind, if you couch your inquiry in terms of helping the boys and keeping their boy in scouting, you may get to the issue that can be appropriately addressed or appropriately ignored.

 

 

[Cubmaster Mike]

Semp is right, you need details. I had to work with the Pack Committee to remove our COR and CC last year for similar reasons, i.e. they were driving families out. And yes, I had to push these families to get details. It became apparent that more would leave if action was not taken.

 

No easy way to do it and it caused hard feelings on the part of the ex-CC and unfortunately ended our friendship. COR was removed for misappropriation of pack funds. He did not object when we went to the CO and requested a new rep.

[seed]

Thanks for all the replies. I almost mentioned a money part too, but because I am not 100 percent sure it's hard to say anything. Like I said, he's the CC and has been is scouting for years. He also serves other packs and troops. Scouting is his life. His brother is our treasurer. Our new to scouting wolf leader asked him to see a statement of our finances. The fellow said he didn't have one but would put something together. This was 6 months ago. Still nothing. It seems to me that we should all know about the finances, and it's not unreasonable to ask for it. How is that done? I'm thinking the person must keep track on something, like excel? And then just give us a printout?

 

Is there a reason why the other leaders and I should NOT have a meeting without him? He he overheard me talking about meeting someone at a cetain time and he kept telling me we have nothing to talk about until next month, so no need to have a meeting. We can't have a meeting without him? Give me a break...

[SemperParatus]

A treasurer's report should be presented at the monthly committee meeting to keep things in the open (both for the leaders' and the treasurer's benefit). If this is not happening, then you and the DLs should request that it be added to the agenda for future pack committee meetings. If he refuses, then you should go to the COR for action to be taken.

 

You can meet with anyone you like, whenever you like, but, 'official pack business' is carried on at the pack committee meeting.

[Cubmaster Mike]

To add to what Semp has said, don't just ask for a treasurer statement created on some computer, ask to see a copy of the BANK statement. We have had two recent cases in the local news here regarding elementary and high school parent faculty organization treasurers that were misappropriating funds for years becasue nobody asked to see the actual statements. The treasurer can put their pride aside and provide the statements if requested (which should be monthly).

[Trevorum]

Many of us have run across this type of Scouter - dedicated, hands on, passionate about the movement, but still controlling and distrustful of newbies.

 

You've recieved some good advice from Semper ("when Semper speaks, people listen" ), and from OneHour and Mike, but I predict this fellow is not going to go quietly into the night. Once you get some more details from the dissatisfied customers, go to the Unit Comish and the District Commish and casually and unobtrusively get some more background about this fellow. What is his history in the district? Any previous problems? What makes him tick? Maybe then you'll be able to map out a strategy that can save your pack and also maybe save face for this Scouter.

 

It sounds like the CO is going to eventually have to select a new CM. Are you or someone else ready?

[SemperParatus]

T,

 

I think you meant select a new CC. Unless I misunderstood the title, Seed is the CM.

[Trevorum]

whoops, sorry, seed! yes, I meant a new CC.

sorry for the typo!

[seed]

I've made some phone calls to a few of the unhappy parents, but no one has called me back yet. This is a hard thing to do when you work so closely with someone.

 

I remember last year when I told him some of the parents were unhappy about something, he said, the pack might have to fold then. This just told me that he thinks no one else can do his job. I will try to talk to him one more time. In his eyes, he thinks he's doing a good job. In a way he is. He's a stickler for following the program and rules. he like the kids to have fun, but one on one with the parents is very bad. It's just that most people don't like him, and it's hard to put a finger on exactly why.

 

I've already made the phone call concerning the bank statement should be seen at the end of the month. Many thanks for that!

[madkins007]

re: finances- after some shenanigans earlier in our pack, when we took over, we included a bit about an annual outside audit to be done by the CO's treasurer (with their permission, of course). Our own people never played with the books, but the monthly statement and annual audit made everyone feel a little better.

[Centreville Scout]

Get a meeting with him. If he refuses, talk to families and maybe to the COR. Your pack is fragile and needs to be handled with care.

[Lynda J]

Several years ago when I was with the pack we had this problem. I talked to our COR about the money thing. He suggested that he ask for an audit of the books. I honestly didn't think there was anything wrong just that we could never get a treasurers report. It had been 2 years.

They ask for an audit and she had to produce all the bank statements. There was nothing wrong but after that the COR told us that they wanted a copy of the bank statement each month. It got her on her toes and we got not only a break down each month but she went over the bank statement with us then gave a copy to the COR.

One thing troops and packs have to remember is that you are basically owned by your CO. They can drop you anytime they chose to. They own all the equipment and supplies that the troop has.

A local troop discovered this the hard way last year. They got mad at their CO and decided to find a new one. They had lots of camping gear. And when they informed the CO they would be moving they were informed that all equipment remained with the CO. The troop went to the council and discovered that the CO had every right to keep the equipment. They ended up staying, but they also started letting parents purchase equipment and "loaning" it to the troop.

 

One thing we did with our committee is that family members can not hold both CC and treasurer positions. It simply makes things easier if there is a problem with the treasurer. You aren't trying to talk to the CC about the partner or brother or sister.

 

(This message has been edited by Lynda J)

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Well, it seems that you have much more work ahead of you than figuring out why some parents are upset enough at the CM to leave the Pack. You have received some great advice so far - bank statements, meeting with the COR and the CC, and no family members on the bank sig card together. If he is refusing to meet and even show you the "books", you certainly have the right to be concerned.

 

Recently, we had a CM that was skimming off the books. He lived with the Treasurer and...well, let's put it this way. He is now in Jail. Now that you have an idea that something is up, investigate! Hopefully it won't be this serious.

 

One other very important thing. Keep in contact with those parents that left. You will get this worked out whether it is with the CM opening up or leaving. Once you do, they will hopefully want to come back. Maybe even before to help you work things out. The worst thing that can ever happen in situations like this is that the Scouting organization looses boys.