Is cubbing good for BSA ?

[cubbingcarol]

Thank you Fred, you always make good points.

 

Carol

[madkins007]

Considering that, according the national numbers themselves, there are almost TWICE as many Cub Scouts in the US then there are Boy Scouts AND Venture COMBINED, I think asking if Cubs are good for Boy Scouts is rather backwards.

 

Obviously, the Cub Scout program is thriving and to even vaguely HINT that it is a key reason for the drop in Boy Scout numbers sounds sorta sour grapes-ish to me.

 

Sure, Cub Scouts has some problems and could probably do more to hold onto members better, but suggesting that boys don't cross over because Cub leaders spoiled them or 'did it all already' just does not add up.

[bbng]

Thank you fgoodwin, and thanks for the clear explanation in addition to resources on the founding of Scouting.

[Eamonn]

Thanks Fred,

I do visit the UK Scouting Library from time to time, but somehow had never read the Cub Scout History page.

It made me feel really old!!

I was in Wolf Cubs when we worked on the stars and the leaping wolf.

As a young Assistant Cubscout leader I was around for the The Arrow Scheme.

I didn't know that the Link Badge had gone.When I was Scoutmaster (Scout Leader) this worked really well as a way of keeping the little Lads in Scouting.

I just read the Scout Membership Badge. I was really impressed by:

The Scout Membership Badge is passed under arrangements made jointly by the Scout Leader and the Patrol Leader, and is awarded by the Patrol Leader's Council.

Eamonn.

[Lynda J]

I don't get Juris. One private post to me is tell me that if you let the boys run the troop you lose them. That he lost over half of his troop by letting the boys do the planning.

Now he says Cub Scouting isn't good for Boy Scouting. Not sure where he did his scouting or where he got his training but I sure wouldn't want my kid in his troop.

]

 

[Bob White]

8 of 10 Boy Scouts came to the program through cubbing! How in the world could it be bad?

[Cubmaster Mike]

Anybody who thinks cubbing may be "bad" or a "distraction".....has.... absolutely........no......idea.....what ......cubbing..... is.

[Torveaux]

While I do not agree with juris I do think if you ignore his extreme position, there may be some valid thoughts...

 

It seems that in the past 10 years or so the Cub program has moved more and more to do things that the Boy Scouts do.

 

I don't think that it will result in wholesale losses of Scouts, but there could be anecdotal evidence of individuals that get burned out on knots, knives, and camping.

 

I think they should retain more of the 'special-ness' that comes with Boy Scouting. One of the things I think that needs to go away is the idea of Webelos in Patrols. Patrols are a 'cool' thing for when a boy 'graduates' to Boy Scouting. It is one thing to introduce the concept for Webelos IIs at a camp...but I think some of the changes are confusing the boys.

[Prairie_Scouter]

Well, I dunno. Seems to me that Cub Scouts does keep things pretty "cub scouty", until you get to Webelos, and then you do start to see more Boy Scout type acitivities. We tend to use that as a selling point, ie, the younger Cubs have something to look forward to in Webelos, and the Webelos get a taste of how things are in Boy Scouts. It does help some that are "on the fence" decide if Boy Scouts is really for them, because it really is a different program with different kinds of activities.

 

Regards "BSA, Inc."

I've seen this used quite a lot more recently. I think it's an attempt to distinguish the national office from the rest of the national organization. Usually, you see this used in discussions over whether the national office is in or out of touch with the rest of the organization.

[ScoutNut]

Cub Scouts is all about progression. The boys gradually learn new things and then move on to harder, more complicated things or more in-depth. They also progress from complete parent dependence to almost complete independence.

 

Repitition is also a major thing for young children (& us older guys too!). They need to repeat skills & ideas in order to master them or internalize them.

 

Cub Scout skills & concepts start with the very basic. They are then built on, like layers, until the 5th grade Webelos is ready to face, & handle, the more complicated, independant world of a Boy Scout.

 

Progression. Cubs learn the saftey rules for a pocket knife. Boy Scouts learn how to handle a hatchet & cut firewood. Cub Scouts learn to tie basic knots. Boy Scouts learn how to lash a bridge.

 

BTW - Webelos are not & should NOT be in Patrols. They are in DENS. Yes they can progress from Den 6 into the Flaming Dragon DEN. This concept gets them prepared for patrols, but they are NOT patrols.

 

Did I mention PROGRESSION?

 

 

[Oak Tree]

I agree with Torveaux's suggestion that boys can get burned out on knots. As madkins pointed out in another thread, Cub Scouts can get burned out on birdhouses, too.

 

But I don't think the solution is to artificially restrict what the cubs do. It would be to have the Boy Scouts do things above and beyond what the pack does. I've had people in the troop suggest that we not do some things in Cub Scouts, but let them wait until they're Boy Scouts. My response is just like the song says, you can't ever have too much fun!!! I should be able to say, "If you're having fun now, wait 'til you see what the Boy Scouts do!"

 

Heck, I'd be a fan of letting the younger dens camp as dens. But you do need to keep the program varied.

 

Oak Tree

[Its Me]

Oak Tree I agree with you. I cringe when I see posts stating that they are holding off on certain activities because they want to save them for Boy Scouts.

 

Cub scouting is a great program. Kids join beacuse they hope to do things that they are currently not doing. Mainly camping, followed by conctructing and then learning cool stuff about snakes and such.

 

If I have a compliant about Cub Scouts it's the book. Too much is about youth safety. Now kids need to learn about safety but the boys didn't join Cub scouts to be lectured at about safety or to get assignments that look excalty like their third grade homework. Researching and writing a report sounds like homework to me. Take a look at the activities I lifted from the Bear Handbook. Is this what boys think of when they join cub scouting? I am not saying its bad stuff but must scouting fill every gap in a youth''s development? I have a set of cub scout books form 1954 that I would much rather use. And I say scouting was an easier program then and more focused on the interests of the boys.

 

 

-Write or tell what makes America special to you.

-Find out something about the old homes near where you live. Go and see two of them.

-Find out where places of historical interest are located in or near your town or city. Go and visit one of them with your family or den.

-Call city or county officials or your trash hauling company and find out what happens to your trash after it is hauled away.

-List all the ways water is used in your home. Search for dripping faucets or other ways water might be wasted. With an adult, repair or correct those problems.

-Trace your family back through your grandparents or great-grandparents; or, talk to a grandparent about what it was like when he or she was younger.

-Tell what to do in case of an accident in the home. A family member needs help. Someone's clothes catch on fire.

-Tell what to do in case of a water accident.

-Tell what to do in case of a school bus accident.

-Write a thank-you note.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Its Me)

[madkins007]

It's Me- I ABSOLUTELY agree that a lot of the requirements in Cubs are significantly less fun today than they were in the past. Cubs USED to have to build crystal radios! How cool is that?

 

I collect Cub books from around the world (mostly English-speaking countries) and history (pretty much a complete set of those!) I think we have a GOOD program now, but one that stand some serious renovation. When I compare what we do now with Cubbing in the 60's, or British Cubbing, I sometimes drool over the possibilities!

[cubbingcarol]

I too agree that the requirements are becoming a little too 'boring' and lecturing. That is why I include requirements in my den meeting plans to try and spice them up and make them more enjoyable. At least I did in Wolves, I hope I can this year in Bears. I retained all of my boys so maybe it wasn't too bad.

 

Carol

[johndaigler]

I loved the Wolf Book. The Bear book, I'm not so sure about . . . where's the singing? the drama? the dinosaurs? the dirt? the Progression?

 

I guess you could argue that all that has been pushed to electives, but I think that's a mistake. It's like schools reducing music and art in their curricula. Bad thinking and bad science!!!!!! I agree it looks a bit too much like homework.

 

But the two that really BUG me are Achievement#10-Family Fun (I think for a "family based program" family is getting shortshrifted!!) and Elective#21-Sales (gee, I wonder what's the route cause of those requirements???)

 

Luckily, there's all the "Other" awards to round out this Bear year -- we're going to run as far as possible with the CS Outdoor Activity Award, Leave No Trace, World Conservation, Emergency Preparedness, 75th Anniversary and also encourage the boys to attempt their religious awards. That ought to keep 'em busy!!

 

jd